17th Ed

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tomlini

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Hi All, first post.

I'm a 16th edition sparky considering a return to the trades and wonder if anyone can advise on the major changes 17th ed has introduced.

After reading a few bits and bobs, it seems any new sockets installed to new/existing circuits need rcd protection, or any other circuit for that matter considering the 30mm rule? Out of interest how does everyone think the customer will respond to the increased invoices?

I've also noticed that insulation resistance has increased, is this for all domestic installations?

One last area that has always bugged me regarding bathroom bonding. Do you need to bond a radiator if it is piped in plastic.

Example, an existing radiator is piped in copper and then replaced for a towel rail using plastic pipe under the floor boards and then chrome up-pipes to the towel rail. Does this need bonding? As far as I knew, only extraneous metal work that introduces a potential difference needed bonding, ie, the pipes not the radiator!?

Any help appreciated

Cheers,

tomlini

 

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Hi All, first post.Out of interest how does everyone think the customer will respond to the increased invoices?

Cheers,

tomlini
Hello Tomlini

welcome to the forum!

I will do a quick post to answer the easy bit first..

Customers.. increased invoices..????? ?:| ? :| ?:|

IMHO... This is a great big RED HERRING!! :|

How does the customer respond to extra..

fuel costs?..

food cost?..

Copper cable costs?..

Surcharges for booking the holiday abroad?...

Pay and display car park Fee's?..

etc..

etc..

If they want the service or goods.. They will pay! ;)

Unless having identical work done on a monthly basis..

the customer probably wouldn't know the cost was any different?

Or not much different to working on 16th... need to upgrade or install bonding..

prior to undertaking work to comply with 130-07-01 maybe? :) ;)

Try to get back on other bits later...

but need to sort some stuff out for work tomorrow...

SL:)

 

kme

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Hi.

To butt in on SL`s descriptive ( of which, as always, he`s done a sterling job!):

If the customer wants a job done, you provide an estimate/quote ( as you like) ; AT THE GOING RATE.

Materials costs are materials costs - not your concern. Everyone else (cowboys & unreg`d eastern europeans exempt) has the same materials costs, in which case it all comes down to labour.

I am not the cheapest in my area; but I do have a damn good reputation, and get a lot of my work from recommendation. A lot of my customers don`t look at the bottom line on the estimate; they just want ME to do the job:x:x:x

r.e. insulation query - yes, all domestic, though imho I don`t find many jobs "borderline" - they`re either ok or they`re not.

r.e. supp bond. 2 points:

1. IF working to 17th (should be now), AND main bonding & earthing correct; supp. bonds not required.

2. If you want `em anyhow, if the copper tail is >500mm length, bond it. You must remember that it isn`t just the conduction of the copper involved; but also the conduction of the liquid within it. This varies dependant on water hardness, fernox or equivalent, etc.

HTH

KME

 

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Hi.To butt in on SL`s descriptive
hur.... hur... hur... KME said "BUTT" hur!! hur!!

I am not the cheapest in my area; but I do have a damn good reputation, and get a lot of my work from recommendation. A lot of my customers don`t look at the bottom line on the estimate; they just want ME to do the job:x:x:x
That is indeed the key point there KME sir!

Get a GOOD REPUTATION!

and a customer will very often pay for quality, ;)

and not question the exact cost.. Just trust you to do the biz! :)

IMHO

aiming at being the cheapest.. can end up working against you... you work too hard for next to nothing! :(

And by providing a higher realistic cost at the start...

gives a little leeway to offer a reduction or sweetener for the customer,

should the need arise..

and still go away with both parties happy with the work & wot was paid! :)

 

tomlini

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Hi Chaps, thanks for the prompt responses.

Great info from both and I'd come to the conclusion that being the name in the area is significant. Reputation is something I am going to focus on but the approach this time is different.

Many years ago when I started up on my own it was off the back of a good rep from doing foreigners, and I was a lad living at home with no responsibilties. This time I have family and bills etc, so need to make an almost instant transition because when I hand my notice in I have no other income! Considering this, have you any advice as to how to drum up business? I'm in the middle of fashioning flyers to post locally and letters to builders. Until I get feedback I'm holding off resigning.

Regarding cost, I understand cost is cost but how do customers accept a new consumer unit just because they need a couple of additional points across a couple of circuits?

I agree with the insulation resistance being either right or not but it would have tripped me up in the past. I used to do new builds before dry lining became popular and at second fix when the plaster was drying out it would have failed because of the condensation on the electrical fixtures. Always got high readings particularly in winter!

Anyway, thanks again and if you can offer inspiration regarding drumming up business, I'd be grateful.

Cheers,

tomlini

 

Theorysparky

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Hi Chaps, thanks for the prompt responses.Great info from both and I'd come to the conclusion that being the name in the area is significant. Reputation is something I am going to focus on but the approach this time is different.

Many years ago when I started up on my own it was off the back of a good rep from doing foreigners, and I was a lad living at home with no responsibilties. This time I have family and bills etc, so need to make an almost instant transition because when I hand my notice in I have no other income! Considering this, have you any advice as to how to drum up business? I'm in the middle of fashioning flyers to post locally and letters to builders. Until I get feedback I'm holding off resigning.

Regarding cost, I understand cost is cost but how do customers accept a new consumer unit just because they need a couple of additional points across a couple of circuits?

I agree with the insulation resistance being either right or not but it would have tripped me up in the past. I used to do new builds before dry lining became popular and at second fix when the plaster was drying out it would have failed because of the condensation on the electrical fixtures. Always got high readings particularly in winter!

Anyway, thanks again and if you can offer inspiration regarding drumming up business, I'd be grateful.

Cheers,

tomlini
Hi Mate

Welcome to the house (i see you have already met the comedians !!! :^O )

Drumming up business.....

business cards in local post offices

advert in local magazines (the monthly ones for yr local area)

and in your parish council newsletters

my biggest earner by far and recommendations is to send letters to all your local letting agencies offering your maintenance services

they are always looking to have a couple of sparkies on their books as we normally fit in their jobs around our big jobs.

these jobs...sockets not working, lighting faults,cooker faults etc are all jobs you can do on the way home.....

Always keep business cards in your pocket you never know who you will meet,,even when you go out on a Friday night

Consumer unit

That is where your communication skills come into it,,,if the job legitimately requires a new unit then you need to explain to them in easy language the reasons why,,,they may want a second opinion and then find out you were being straight with them. There lies your reputation.

of course you would have left your business card with them ;)

just a few ideas

 

kme

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100% agree with Theo. I took exactly the same step as this 1 year ago; and, other than a couple of "oh bu99er, we`ve got no work" weeks; it`s been fine.

The only thing I`d add to Theo`s post is this: If the customer needs (for example) a new C.U. , but they only WANTED a couple of sockets, you MUST have the principles to walk away if they won`t do the job properly. Impress on them the safety aspects, and the importance of certification. When they find someone who`ll do exactly what THEY want (remembering this IS Joe Bloggs we`re talking about - they may know what they WANT, but have no clue what they NEED!) but this other person can`t or won`t provide a cert. , there`s a good chance they`ll come back to you. If not - ce la vie.

KME

 

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Hi Chaps, thanks for the prompt responses.Great info from both and I'd come to the conclusion that being the name in the area is significant. Reputation is something I am going to focus on but the approach this time is different.

Many years ago when I started up on my own it was off the back of a good rep from doing foreigners, and I was a lad living at home with no responsibilties. This time I have family and bills etc, so need to make an almost instant transition because when I hand my notice in I have no other income! Considering this, have you any advice as to how to drum up business? I'm in the middle of fashioning flyers to post locally and letters to builders. Until I get feedback I'm holding off resigning.

Regarding cost, I understand cost is cost but how do customers accept a new consumer unit just because they need a couple of additional points across a couple of circuits?

I agree with the insulation resistance being either right or not but it would have tripped me up in the past. I used to do new builds before dry lining became popular and at second fix when the plaster was drying out it would have failed because of the condensation on the electrical fixtures. Always got high readings particularly in winter!

Anyway, thanks again and if you can offer inspiration regarding drumming up business, I'd be grateful.

Cheers,

tomlini
Give them the choice?

Price the couple of sockets.. and

If got to put RCD onto circuit that ain't there..

either...

quote for a standalone RCD/

Or a small 2-way garage/shower type CU.

Or a complete CU with added safety benefits for all circuits

point out that future changes to other circuits may require more RCD's - vs - the cost of a larger CU now with expansion capacity for the future!?

Remind them that their current box is NOT unsafe..

But it is not as safe as a modern box with added circuit protection or electrical shock as well as overload! ;) :D

 

tomlini

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Thanks again, the help is appreciated.

A couple more quick questions if possible.

What's a reasonable hourly rate to charge, and does anyone know of any online information or refreshers for testing. I got my 2391 a couple of years ago but forgotten some of the content, slept since then:D

Another point someone may be able to help with is contracting to industry. I may have a chance of getting into a manufacturing company installing new supplies etc. They are currently looking at their insurance to see if they can use me. Does anyone know if you need to be NIC approved to contract for companies or, anything else that may be needed? Never used to be anything but the lie of the land has changed considerably since then!

Anyway thanks again for the advice, it's very helpful.

Cheers,

tomlini

 
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