Adapting Summerhouse Electric's

[Essex1]

I am not challenging you about external cables. How does putting an RCD make the circuit safer? Are you saying BS7671 does not go far enough in it's reliance on RCDs? Furthermore you would code the absence of RCD protection on an EICR and quote a regulation about lack of mechanical protection. I really cannot believe what I am reading tonight.

?you could have some pyro, that would be suitable without an RCD also, buit, why wouldnt you put one on anyway? ?

GASP!

 

[steptoe]

I am not challenging you about external cables. How does putting an RCD make the circuit safer? Are you saying BS7671 does not go far enough in it's reliance on RCDs? Furthermore you would code the absence of RCD protection on an EICR and quote a regulation about lack of mechanical protection. I really cannot believe what I am reading tonight.

GASP!

thats probably because not only has your ability in understanding cables suitable for use externally gone awary,

so has your reading ability, either that, or your ability to understand the english language,

btw,

I'm still waiting for you to tell me another cable that is suitable for use externally? didnt they cover that on your 5week course? oh deary me,  :shakehead

and yes,

I do feel you were challenging me about external cables, but, it seems your knowledge base on them is rather low, thats why you state SWA and no RCD needed,

you really have no concept of why RCDs are used,

I did ask you previously to explain the different reasoning behind various ratings and delays of RCDs, which you have sidestepped,

these 5 week courses really need the extra week, dont they?

what may be a more constructive answer Essex1

why dont you give a brief on the OPs situation?

you dont have to give a detailed schedule of works, just simply a suggestion of install

perhaps that would be more useful instead of you digging a great big hole for yourself in poor pacmans garden. 

 

[Murdoch]

Then I ask again WHY are you on a forum such as this ??

to share product information including issues with "mainstream" models

discuss the continuing changes to the regs and the unnecessary costs we incur all too infrequently

Offer business advice like how to deal with late payers & compare notes on insurance, tools and vans

and take the pxss out of muppets like you.

Simples

 

[ProDave]

Oh dear, what a bun fight this has turned into.

"the forum with a difference"  well I guess that's true.   :coat

 

[Badger]

My thoughts on this Dave that's why ive kept out of it

 

[apprentice87]

Oh well, I guess pacman has gone away....

Still, bit late in the day now, but i will just say two things;

1, If you are more than capable of doing the work why ask VERY basic questions on here, i mean, if you have not figured out that you are going to need to know the load you are trying to feed there is no hope for you.

2, You can be as "capable" as you like. By the time you buy the testing equipment you will need it would probably have been cheaper to get a proper electrician. I bought all mine from Megger Mark and it was still bundles!!

john..

 

[jonmeehan]

no, but I am saying clipping an earth outside to a rod without any sort of mechanical protection is rough as a badgers arse,

and will look even worse than a nicely saddled piece of whatever colour conduit blends in best,

lots of cables are suitable for use outside, I've already named you one, apart from SWA are you a bit stuck on others that are suitable?

you could have some pyro, that would be suitable without an RCD also, buit, why wouldnt you put one on anyway?

its domestic, keep the householder as safe as possible, after all, thats why they employ us professionals, to do it right,

so, help me out here, or is google too slow tonight, ?

what other cables can we use outside safely ?

My thoughts on this Dave that's why ive kept out of it

he's having a go at your arse here too badger!! :slap

 

[Essex1]

thats probably because not only has your ability in understanding cables suitable for use externally gone awary,

so has your reading ability, either that, or your ability to understand the english language,

btw,

I'm still waiting for you to tell me another cable that is suitable for use externally? didnt they cover that on your 5week course? oh deary me, :shakehead

and yes,

I do feel you were challenging me about external cables, but, it seems your knowledge base on them is rather low, thats why you state SWA and no RCD needed,

you really have no concept of why RCDs are used,

I did ask you previously to explain the different reasoning behind various ratings and delays of RCDs, which you have sidestepped,

these 5 week courses really need the extra week, dont they?

what may be a more constructive answer Essex1

why dont you give a brief on the OPs situation?

you dont have to give a detailed schedule of works, just simply a suggestion of install

perhaps that would be more useful instead of you digging a great big hole for yourself in poor pacmans garden.

It is a shame that you have resorted to being nasty. I am simply interested to discover how putting an RCD on an outside cable is either:

1. Following BS7671

2. Making the cable safer?

 

[Pacman52]

Well I've certainly ruffled some feathers with my original post !

Just to update. My usual spark was in the area when I called him this morning and he just popped round to assess the job - his words... 'you could do this without any issues but to be safe it would be better to get it done professionally' So he's booked in to do it next month plus some other stuff in the main house that needs doing. The current armoured cable is 6mm going to a 20amp RCD and is more than adequate for what I will be drawing off it, so in fact the job is quiet simple for him simply doing a re-wire of the summerhouse and putting in extra sockets plus a small CU (He did say I didn't really need the CU but it would work as another safety mechanism plus make the re-wire easier to complete inside) 

Once again thanks to those who contributed to this thread constructively, to the p' takers karma, is a wonderful thing and it comes to us all eventually !!

 

[Essex1]

I wonder if he will 'protect the cable' with a 100mA S type RCD? Hehe

 

[a3]

I have just dropped in to see what all the fuss is about, please be nice as otherwise I shall have to call Mr Smith and ask him to sort out anyone who is treading the thin line here.

This is not aimed at any single member but all of your reading this.

 

[M107]

it beggars belief that someone that appears to have some knowledge of electrical systems is stating SWA or steel conduit is all that is permitted outside,

and sees no use for a 100mA TD RCD on a domestic system outside a TT,  

That's what happens when you let industrial sparks loose on the domestic scene :slap .......................... get em on a 5ww course that'll sort em out msl1:

As for the Op......

Me I'd split meter tails to separate the summer house from house, put tails to a 100mA S type rcd & put  (correctly sized by cable calculation) swa from a correctly rated MCB directly to the summer house consumer unit, where I would use SBS dave's compact RCBO's for individual circuit protection................... & I'd TT the summer house :innocent  ....................... but that's me.

What I'm trying to say is there are varying ways to accomplish what you are wanting & you will get all of them thrown at you on a forum & all will have their pros & cons.

Anyway that is all immaterial because you do (if you stay with the current installation set up) require 30mA rcd at the house end of the 6mm or You could I suppose change the assumed standard socket for a SRCD

Currently I have a cable coming directly from my main fuse box with it's own RCD, running into a twin socket in the garage, from this socket there is armoured cable (6mm I think) running through the garage wall along to the Summerhouse, where its currently feed two double sockets and 1 wall light. (All of this was installed by a qualified spark and certified)

Or

You could just do as you say, plonk a consumer unit in the summer house on the end of the swa, add what you want to it , test / cert & notify and be happy.

Or

Do as you are doing get your sparks to do the work where it should be installed correctly tested correctly notified correctly & have the correct certification issued.

Dont be put off by the (has to be said) unusual slating that has gone on in this thread & do come back now & again.................................unlike other forums this is the friendly electrical forum.

Back to the beer fridge for a refill............................my round

 

[Essex1]

Why would you TT the summer house?

 

[Sidewinder]

Construction, extraneous parts, services, to mention just a few, there are possibly quite a few reasons, this could be needed.

 

[Essex1]

Construction, extraneous parts, services, to mention just a few, there are possibly quite a few reasons, this could be needed.

I know the answer but none of that was in the OP so I was trying to see what was in the OP that warrants a TT earning arrangement.

 

[Rob_the_rich]

...

Me I'd split meter tails to separate the summer house from house, put tails to a 100mA S type rcd & put  (correctly sized by cable calculation) swa from a correctly rated MCB directly to the summer house consumer unit, where I would use SBS dave's compact RCBO's for individual circuit protection................... & I'd TT the summer house :innocent  ....................... but that's me

...

+1

individual circuit protection with rcbos would seem the sensible way to go for the use described.

If you go any other way then the rcd in the house (or srcd in garage) would be at risk of tripping, putting the whole of the summerhouse out of commission (inc lights and possibly part of the house too).

If putting in 20+ sockets, you might want to consider splitting these into 2 circuits, each on their own rcbo.

With lots of IT equipment installed, a functional earth might be considered too.

You can search the web for heat loss calculators for the summerhouse to see how much heating might be needed in the wintertime, and factor this into your calcs.