Advice required on PIR (installer not part p)

[m4tty]

Hi,

Got a call from a guy (builder) who has just found out his electrician wasent part p and needs a new cooker circuit and kitchen ring signed off.

He could have installed this himself and is wanting someone to sign it off but im not getting into that.

I said I couldnt do an EIC as i didnt install but offered a PIR on the new circuits.

He's gone for this (i cant afford to turn work away atm tbh, not a lot on)

Just wanted your advice as i want to cover myself.

Im going to 100% test the whole new installed circuits but I suppose its important to get the extent and limitations spot on.

Any advice appreicated.

Cheers

MattGuinness

 

[sellers]

limitations on cable routing, erection methods, put 50% of accessories inspected.

 

[m4tty]

Just to add this is a working mans club (out in the sticks). (thought part p only applied to domestic?)

Also if you was installing these new circuits, you would check bonding is upto scratch. If i issued a PIR and they havent done the bonding, would these just be code 4's if undersized or would you insist on upgrading bonding and the new circuits would normally require the bonding to be upgraded?

Sorry if im mumbling but been ill all over xmas so heads not in gear 100%

Cheers

 

[spinlondon]

Normally I use: "No dismanteling of building fabric, or lifting of floor boards."

This allows you to use LIM on cable routes, and you don't have to go searching under floors for JBs.

 

[kme]

You could have issued a 3 part EIC, and only signed for T+I. As long as there isn`t a domestic residence fed from the same meter, part p doesn`t apply,afaic.

PIR is a PIR - if you`re only issuing it on a particular part of the install, say so. Whatever limits you choose / agree to, note them on the form.

KME

 

[Andy™]

if it does need notified, make sure LABC are happy with PIR

also, id be tempted to mark any code 4 as 'unsaftifactory', since a new install should not have any non-compliances

 

[PC Electrics]

And if the bonding's not up to scratch give it a code 2 on a new install.

Make sure you highlight the "unsatisfactory"

 

[ADS]

Hi Matty,

Bottom line is - forget the fact that it is a new install - you are doing a PIR on an existing installation.......just like you would with any other PIR.

'Extent and Limitations' are up to you and the builder.

You 'I & T' it in the same way, with the same thoroughness (or not), using the same method of 'coding'.

If it's 'unsatisfactory', then it's unsatisfactory, regardless of when the additions were made.

The fact that it was installed last week or last month has nothing to do with you - you are just reporting on an installation.

The rest is the builders problem.

 

[Manator]

Hi Matty,Bottom line is - forget the fact that it is a new install - you are doing a PIR on an existing installation.......just like you would with any other PIR.

'Extent and Limitations' are up to you and the builder.

You 'I & T' it in the same way, with the same thoroughness (or not), using the same method of 'coding'.

If it's 'unsatisfactory', then it's unsatisfactory, regardless of when the additions were made.

The fact that it was installed last week or last month has nothing to do with you - you are just reporting on an installation.

The rest is the builders problem.

Very good answer.

Any PIR is just that, it does not matter when anything was installed be it last week or 10 years ago. One bit of advise I would give to anyone doing any PIR is to go into detail about limitations to testing, think of it as a Lawyer would fill in a form, he would want to cover every question with a reason why he has not answered it.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Hi,Got a call from a guy (builder) who has just found out his electrician wasent part p and needs a new cooker circuit and kitchen ring signed off.

Any advice appreicated.

Cheers

MattGuinness

One point that doesn't appear to have been mentioned yet is....

I would be VERY wary of any builder who is so incompetent not to ensure his contractors can issue any appropriate certificates..

Any builder who has any credibility will be well aware of all applicable bits of paper he needs for completing his works..

GAS,

FENSA,

Any architectural loading calculations,

ELECTRICAL CERTIFICATES,

etc..

etc..

So I would make sure, then double check and triple check that the builder knows what he's getting from any work you do.....

AND how much it will cost...

Agree a price, part payment up front..

Then balance when you hand him his certificate.

The bloke sounds like a plonker to me!

Or he knows exactly what he's doing trying to pull a fast one.

Maybe other electrician can do everything..

just he's not been paid so is withholding last stage!

 

[m4tty]

Would I need to contact labc to see whether they will accept my pir or is that down to the builder?

Cheers

 

[Doc Hudson]

Legally it is the homeowners responsibility to ensure all work complies with the regulations. What agreement did you come to with the builder? It could be worthwhile to read through the Part-P document and check on the recommended procedures, there is something in there about 3rd parties and PIR's, but I cant remember the exact guidance.

Doc H.

 

[spinlondon]

Would I need to contact labc to see whether they will accept my pir or is that down to the builder?Cheers

Depends how you feel about the customer.

If all you have been asked to do is a PIR, then why should you care whether it will be acceptable or not?

 

[m4tty]

I got asked by the builder if i could "sign off" some work which has been done by someone who isn't part p registed and I said I could do a pir but can't sign off someone elses work. He said were go for that then. But I don't want to get into a situation where building control won't accept my pir and the builder ends up stuck.

I know most will think stuff the builder he probably installed the wiring himself and wants to get spark in to sign off but I don't want to upset anyone and I need the work tbh.

Cheers

 

[Evans Electric]

As its a Working Men's Club its a commercial job and not subject to the Draconian P scam inflicted upon us by the last bunch of gangsters that were supposed to be running the country , so as I see it , carry out a PIR . If you find something wrong ,discuss it with the builder .

Not notifiable to anyone so get on with it . IMO

 

[wozz]

Even if it was notifiable you would have to ask the LABC what they want, some in Kent will accept a PIR some will flatly refuse and then the power service or IPS will test it on the councils behalf at cost to someone.

 

[Evans Electric]

Your right Wozz but its not notifiable , the Scammers and the local council can keep their noses out so Mattys away with the mixer .