Building Control Signing Off Notifable Work

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mouk

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Hello

I saw a similar question on here so though I would join up and ask my question so the answer is here for reference.

Simply put, if I pay the local authority building control to approve an electrical installation, is it as good as having an electrcian do it in temr sof what I end up with if I should sell my house?

I understand that the work has to be PART P compliant (which makes it building regulations compliant?) and also safe with something called an EIC.

Will the local authority give me both?

My story is this:

I employed an ELECSA approved electrician to first fix and second fix a new build.

The electrician got his sole member of staff to do the wiring for the upstairs.

After that he never came back - it has been 3 months now and I cannot wait for him any longer. He has sacked his employee.

His employee is obviously a competent electrcian and I am happy to employ him directly.

However, the employee is not able to certify jobs in his own right. He has applied to join one of the approved schemes but they have told him he cannot certify my house as it was started by another company - even though he has done all the work. Technically he could probably tell the council it is all his own work but he probably wouldn't.

My options as I understand are

1) find an electrician to carry on and who will certify in his name. This is likely to be a pain - all of the wiring is exposed for them to check it out - but I suspect getting anyone interested will be a pain and time consuming

2) I can use the LABC to check it out and approve it

3) I can use a third party operator (like NAPIT) to get someone to do the approval rather than the LABC. One advantage of going this route is that I might find an electrician who will take on work started by someone else.

Ideally I want to go for option 2 - get the employe to do the job and get it signed off by building control. The employee is available to do it now and knows whats what.

As mentioned, we are still in first fix stage so all of the wiring can be seen. I suppose I can get building control on site whilst electrician is doing the downstairs first fix or at the end of the first fix when all wiring is done.

So going back to my question - if I go down option 2 do I end up with anything less than if the original electrician had done it? As I understand Part P says that the job complies with building regulations - which is presumably what building control are saying? The electrician then also does a test to ensure everything is safe/works.

Thanks

 
Just to add one more thing - huilding control say they need paperwork from a 'competent person' to safe everythign has been tested - presumably in my case this would be the employee - who somehow has to prove he is competent - even though he is not a member of a certification shceme? (I appreciate they are 2 different things).

 
I was going to say it depends on the council as some will send someone out to test, some won't. Sounds like yours won't but depending on what they mean by "competent person" depends on whether it is a moot point anyway. Best bet is ask them to clarify.

 
Have you paid him? Have you had the EIC

You shouldn't have paid the balance without the cert and confirmation notification had been done.

Elecsa say that certs should be provided with the invoice - so you could take it up with them too. Do you have his Elecsa number?

Getting an independent spark to do a EICR isn't the same and as an example Guildford BC will not accept 3rd party EICR's unless its from their appointed list of Sparks

 
Have you paid him? Have you had the EIC

You shouldn't have paid the balance without the cert and confirmation notification had been done.

Elecsa say that certs should be provided with the invoice - so you could take it up with them too. Do you have his Elecsa number?
The job has barely been started so why would he have an EIC when the job is only 15% complete? When do you issue your EICs?

 
The job has barely been started so why would he have an EIC when the job is only 15% complete? When do you issue your EICs?
On the same token he shouldn't have paid yet either. Though sometimes I will bill after first fix if I know there's going to be a long delay.

 
As your guy isn't registered yet here's what you should do...

Get your LABC to inspect the 1st fix

Get your guy to finish off, test and certify the work... He'll have to provide you with an Electrical Installation Certificate

Pass on a copy of the certificate to your LABC

Barring any additional fees that your LABC want to charge you that should be it.

As for the council saying about a competent person completing the EIC,,, if your guy isn't competent then he shouldn't be doing what should be a pretty straight forward job

 
The job has barely been started so why would he have an EIC when the job is only 15% complete? When do you issue your EICs?

Should have gone to spec savers...

Ok. I've read this 3 time now and I'm still a little puzzled by this BUT to OP may get somebody to "adopt" the first fix - if its all visible somebody may take it on - that said I looked at a job yesterday, and who ever did the first fix certainly wasn't a spark so I declined to get involved!

OP - where are you based?

 
My agreement was I would pay after 1st fix and after 2nd fix.

What happened was that after the upstairs was done I got a bill which I paid for the work that was done. So I am not out of pocket in that sense as I got what I paid for.

I have since heard quite bad things about this electrician taking on lots of jobs and leaving people in the lurch.

I have spoken to LABC who say that if my guy can prove he is competent by providing his 17th edition certificates then they will certify (he also has to provide test certificates) - they did not seem that bothered about visiting - I am confirming this by email.

The LABC guy I spoke to says they only send electricians out to DIYer jobs and I guess it makes no sense to send one to a competent persons job.

Once I get confirmation from the LABC in writing that they will do the above and when/if they want to visit I will proceed.

---

On a related note I rang 2 NAPIT electricians who are on the register to certify other peoples jobs same as the LABC - both are very busy with their own work but both were very helpful. 1 was too busy to do it and 1 said he would try to squeeze me in.

I am probably going to go the LABC route simply because I have a bit more safety because if I employ a private contractor I could have simialr issues in 3 months when it is sign off time and they cannot do it for whatever reason.

If I did not have an electrician ready to go I may have asked one of the NAPIT guys to quote as presumably they are happy to take on jobs other people have not finished properly.

 
My agreement was I would pay after 1st fix and after 2nd fix.

What happened was that after the upstairs was done I got a bill which I paid for the work that was done. So I am not out of pocket in that sense as I got what I paid for.

I have since heard quite bad things about this electrician taking on lots of jobs and leaving people in the lurch.

I have spoken to LABC who say that if my guy can prove he is competent by providing his 17th edition certificates then they will certify (he also has to provide test certificates) - they did not seem that bothered about visiting - I am confirming this by email.

The LABC guy I spoke to says they only send electricians out to DIYer jobs and I guess it makes no sense to send one to a competent persons job.

Once I get confirmation from the LABC in writing that they will do the above and when/if they want to visit I will proceed.

---

On a related note I rang 2 NAPIT electricians who are on the register to certify other peoples jobs same as the LABC - both are very busy with their own work but both were very helpful. 1 was too busy to do it and 1 said he would try to squeeze me in.

I am probably going to go the LABC route simply because I have a bit more safety because if I employ a private contractor I could have simialr issues in 3 months when it is sign off time and they cannot do it for whatever reason.

If I did not have an electrician ready to go I may have asked one of the NAPIT guys to quote as presumably they are happy to take on jobs other people have not finished properly.

That is not strictly correct. 3rd party testing is different to self certification for Part P

 
Yes, but if at first fix stage and can be inspected, then completing 2nd fix and adopting the previous works is  a little different. It's no different to how many electrical companies work, whereby they get the qualified supervisor to check the work of 'lesser electricians' and certify.

 
Why not just do the work and make it non notifiable. It is pefectly fine if you do that.

No new circuits,

nothing outside,

nothing near bathroom zomes

 
Given that I have just 1 plug at the moment I don't think I will last that long this way.

Just to bring some completion to this thread. I think I have been fortunate - even though its been a massive headache (had nuemrous other problems).

LABC have said they are fine with my guy doing the work, he just needs to send them

- his qualification certifications

- proof that his testing tools are calibrated

- a test certificate

I won't have to pay anything because I have already paid over £800 for building control on the structural stuff.

Essentially I have 'got away with it' in that I am now worse off than I would have been before.

The only real problem I have now is that I have a newly self employed electrcian who cannot get the same discounts on electrical stuff as the original electrician (see related thread).

Should say I am no worse off than I was before.

 
Given that I have just 1 plug at the moment I don't think I will last that long this way.

Just to bring some completion to this thread. I think I have been fortunate - even though its been a massive headache (had nuemrous other problems).

LABC have said they are fine with my guy doing the work, he just needs to send them

- his qualification certifications

- proof that his testing tools are calibrated

- a test certificate

I won't have to pay anything because I have already paid over £800 for building control on the structural stuff.

Essentially I have 'got away with it' in that I am now worse off than I would have been before.

The only real problem I have now is that I have a newly self employed electrcian who cannot get the same discounts on electrical stuff as the original electrician (see related thread).

Should say I am no worse off than I was before.
Best you get him to do that and get it agreed with LABC before he does any more work (obviously without the test certificate)

 
LABC have said they are fine with my guy doing the work, he just needs to send them

- his qualification certifications

- proof that his testing tools are calibrated

- a test certificate
Does this mean we don't have to belong to a Part Pee Competent Person's Scheme anymore ?     So just register youself with your LBC  and Roberts your uncle !!

 
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I read somewhere that some LA's do this anyway..
They all do what they want, none of it matters one bit though as the installation is no better or worse at the end of it. Most of them have no idea what they are doing or looking at/for, all they want is someone to blame if the house blows up, they aren't bothered if it is extremely likely that it will catch fire due to piss poor electrical practices. They should all be banned from this total bollocks random made up requesting of irrelevant bits of paper.

 
Does this mean we don't have to belong to a Part Pee Competent Person's Scheme anymore ?     So just register youself with your LBC  and Roberts your uncle !!
The benefit of being Part P as I understand it is that the electrician can sign the work off directly and it is much cheaper.

LABC will sign the work off as long as the eprson can prove they are competent.

In theory every job you do you could get LABC to sign it off for you - but it will cost money and add time to the job - so better off Part P.

 
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