Convert old delmatic to LCM

[johnashby]

So I want to use this old delmatic box that's burnt out and upgrade to a vitesse lcm, the old delmatic uses low voltage switching.
Of course I can flex out of the box using a din rail and connect mains to the vitesse and flex out the loads to plugs to go into the vitesse, I'm a little unsure of how to handle the emergency lighting, I assume flex out and use the permanent feed and switch feed, plus neutral in a red plug.
Circuits are all on kliks, so I'll check but looks like singles and every 3rd fitting/klik has an emergency with permanent feed.

 

[Phoenix]

I'm not sure the vitesse is the right bit of kit to shoe horn in there, unless you are also ripping out the kliks and putting it in its place.

You have four outgoing channels from the old delmatic, do you have emergencys on them all or just one. Looking at how its wired, you have three reds into the test switch (which for some reason isn't a key switch) and the Line into the the delmatic box is one conductor jumped over to both blocks and labelled E, So we can assume that of those three at the switch, one is power in, one is the feed to the delmatic box and one goes straight through to the fittings.

You then have four switch lives out from LAA, LA2, LB3, and LB4, and you also have four corresponding neutrals into the A and B neutral blocks which are jumpered across, now it won't actually require the neutrals to be wired this way, its just the box leads you to do it, It just needs a netral to work.

So what you have is 4 neutrals and 4 switched lives, one EM live and one earth (going to all the kliks). Now if you were to gut it and put terminals in and joint to flexes to go to your vitesse unit, if the emergeny line feeds fittings on multiple switched legs then what you'd find is you'd end up with a borrowed neutral situation energising the pins on a plug thats been removed, as if you unplugged a different leg than the one feeding the em live, then you have disconnected SWL and N to that leg, but if its got emergencies on it, it'll backfeed and you'll have a plug with a live pin.

Trust me, I've often discovered someone has done something like that the hardway!

Now some might say, just common the neutrals, but while thats a little less likely to bite someone, you can't really have neutral on an exposed pin, because afterall it is classed as a live conductor.

I think, if you want to do as you propose, then unless the EMs are all on one leg and you can pair it up with the right SW-L and N, then you'd end up having to re-wire the emergency feeds, or rip out the kliks and just plug the fittings striaght into new LCM(s) of course if there is a lot, then you might require quite a few linked LCMs!

What is wrong with the delmatic box? Doesn't look much to it, its all through hole, linear PSU, and one IC on the control board, No SMD, no switching PSU, no microprocessor or firmware. It could be straight forward to sort!, of course I think the one IC it does have is a custom part (https://delmatic.com/about-us/over-50-years-experience/ )so if thats toast then it would be game over... well of course unless one reverse engineered it enough to come with an alternative control card (which doesn't look hard) If you do end up taking it it out, I'd be interested in getting a hold of it for a good look.

 

[johnashby]

I'm not sure the vitesse is the right bit of kit to shoe horn in there, unless you are also ripping out the kliks and putting it in its place.

You have four outgoing channels from the old delmatic, do you have emergencys on them all or just one. Looking at how its wired, you have three reds into the test switch (which for some reason isn't a key switch) and the Line into the the delmatic box is one conductor jumped over to both blocks and labelled E, So we can assume that of those three at the switch, one is power in, one is the feed to the delmatic box and one goes straight through to the fittings.

You then have four switch lives out from LAA, LA2, LB3, and LB4, and you also have four corresponding neutrals into the A and B neutral blocks which are jumpered across, now it won't actually require the neutrals to be wired this way, its just the box leads you to do it, It just needs a netral to work.

So what you have is 4 neutrals and 4 switched lives, one EM live and one earth (going to all the kliks). Now if you were to gut it and put terminals in and joint to flexes to go to your vitesse unit, if the emergeny line feeds fittings on multiple switched legs then what you'd find is you'd end up with a borrowed neutral situation energising the pins on a plug thats been removed, as if you unplugged a different leg than the one feeding the em live, then you have disconnected SWL and N to that leg, but if its got emergencies on it, it'll backfeed and you'll have a plug with a live pin.

Trust me, I've often discovered someone has done something like that the hardway!

Now some might say, just common the neutrals, but while thats a little less likely to bite someone, you can't really have neutral on an exposed pin, because afterall it is classed as a live conductor.

I think, if you want to do as you propose, then unless the EMs are all on one leg and you can pair it up with the right SW-L and N, then you'd end up having to re-wire the emergency feeds, or rip out the kliks and just plug the fittings striaght into new LCM(s) of course if there is a lot, then you might require quite a few linked LCMs!

What is wrong with the delmatic box? Doesn't look much to it, its all through hole, linear PSU, and one IC on the control board, No SMD, no switching PSU, no microprocessor or firmware. It could be straight forward to sort!, of course I think the one IC it does have is a custom part (https://delmatic.com/about-us/over-50-years-experience/ )so if thats toast then it would be game over... well of course unless one reverse engineered it enough to come with an alternative control card (which doesn't look hard) If you do end up taking it it out, I'd be interested in getting a hold of it for a good look.

The delmatic box has burnt out, you can smell it as soon as you walk in the room,
Everything is on a pcb including relays etc.

Basically I have 4 rows, 2 rows have emergencys on them 2 rows all standard fittings, there is the in going perm feed to the emergency switch and one out going but there are 2 perm lives.

 

[johnashby]

To make things worse I noticed some em fittings have been wired by taking the switch wire and Neutral and sending it to another connector feeding perm live and neutral. This isn't 2 feeds its the same switch feed.