Disclaimer !!!!!

Help Support Talk Electrician Forum:

Theorysparky

Domestic Electrician
Joined
Feb 18, 2008
Messages
4,233
Reaction score
0
Hi guys

Did PAT testing on this rented property and which i do visuals on sockets/switches etc,,,,,,,,smokes and bonding

Came across this and quoted for two double sockets trunked over the worktop

Guess what,, they dont want it done but i need to put in a dislaimer to cover myself as they still want the rest of the house certed

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm34/spinnekar/S5000540.jpg

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm34/spinnekar/S5000539.jpg

any pointers for the paperwork ???,,,,,,,i will be attaching these photos

The paperwork i use is home made excel sheet

 

Theorysparky

Domestic Electrician
Joined
Feb 18, 2008
Messages
4,233
Reaction score
0
Its just been decorated and they dont want the extra sockets

the landlord is happy having it there :^O

 

extension15

Distinguished Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2008
Messages
1,659
Reaction score
0
Its just been decorated and they dont want the extra sockets the landlord is happy having it there :^O
Well at least they can cook the Kettle...

:|

 
Joined
Feb 14, 2008
Messages
7,480
Reaction score
21
Location
Cloud Cuckoo Land
Well at least they can cook the Kettle... :|
After carrying out some fault finding and repairs on a kitchen ring circuit the stupid stupid women client asked me if i could repair her electric kettle. It was one of those very expensive chrome Jobie's with the black plastic bottom which was a melted blob. When i asked how that happened the thick as sh*t women replied ' Because the sockets weren't working i put the kettle on the hob'.This was a multi-million pound pad in Hampstead, West London. Just shows money doesn't buy brains.

 

extension15

Distinguished Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2008
Messages
1,659
Reaction score
0
I see the position of sockets over cookers and sinks all too often..

Quite often the solution to the problem, falls on deaf ears..

; \

 

Admin1

Forum Founder
Joined
Feb 6, 2008
Messages
10,278
Reaction score
-1
OP has said the Magic word.... "Landlord" - Say no more. :eek:

 

steptoe

of course Im wrong, ask my wife™
Joined
Feb 13, 2008
Messages
24,337
Reaction score
117
Location
Gtr Manchester
AFAIK its not a fault is it?

and neither is having a socket above a sink?

I think if anything it would only be a comment in the

'COMMENTS ON EXISTING INSTALLATION' box.

then you have legally informed the landlord/person ordering the work about a possible problem you as a competent person have encountered and are not entirely satisfied with, but it doesnt affect the electical installation.

there wouldn't be any issue if there was no cooker, or vice versa if the sink didnt exist, so the hard wired electrical install isnt at fault.

its only IMHO

 
Joined
Feb 14, 2008
Messages
7,480
Reaction score
21
Location
Cloud Cuckoo Land
AFAIK its not a fault is it?and neither is having a socket above a sink?

I think if anything it would only be a comment in the

'COMMENTS ON EXISTING INSTALLATION' box.

then you have legally informed the landlord/person ordering the work about a possible problem you as a competent person have encountered and are not entirely satisfied with, but it doesnt affect the electical installation.

there wouldn't be any issue if there was no cooker, or vice versa if the sink didnt exist, so the hard wired electrical install isnt at fault.

its only IMHO
Sorry to be pedantic here, but there is no 'COMMENTS ON EXISTING INSTALLATION' box on a PAT testing report ;) .

 
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
Messages
13,618
Reaction score
296
Hi Theory...

As pointed out by others this is a classic example of balancing between two (or three) points of view of guidance for good practice.

But having no statutory enforcement.. whatever the perceived risks!

With any installation I would consider a good spark will always consider the following key points:-

1) Electrical safety: {in this case probably OK:|}

2) Functional operation: {in this case Crap! :( }

3) Design considerations for probable future use: {in this case Crap! :( }

If you want to cover your back with a letter.. and give a few references...

you could always go something along the lines of:-

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Dear Mr "blah blah"

following my recent work at your property "anyroad anytown" I would draw your attention to a couple of points with the kitchen wiring which may present a problem to future tenants of the property.

It would appear that the layout of the kitchen has been altered leaving electrical accessories in inappropriate locations. Whilst there is no direct electrical danger, there are areas that do not comply with the various publications which give guidance for good practice within domestic electrical installations.

BS7671 "IEE wiring regulations", recommends where portable equipment is to be used, sufficient sockets should be installed taking into account the length of flex cord normally found on portable appliances. (reg 553-01-07)

IEE "on-site-guide", recommends between 6 & 10 double socket outlets to be installed within a kitchen (table8B page 156).

IEE "Electricians guide to the building regulation", recommends socket & switches should not be mounted over cooking appliances where the user may have to stretch over hot surfaces. (5.2.2 page 56)

Even allowing for the small size of this kitchen I would suggest there are insufficient socket outlets and the outlet that is above the cooker is in an inappropriate location. It is quite probable there will be trailing leads over the cooker whilst the cooker is in operation, which I am sure you can see presents potential hazards.

If you require clarification of any of the above points, or you wish me to quote for any suitable remedial work, please do not hesitate to contact me.

yours the best spark in the area

Theory!! :D :D:D

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

I would also stick any job no' ref and/or elect cert no' on the letter & refer to the letter in your comments on the cert! :)

Hope that helps m8;)

(I guess you may be in bed now....... :(

but you can read this tomorrow! :^O :^ O)

 
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
Messages
13,618
Reaction score
296
9 1/2 out of 10 for that (can't be 10 cos your not as perfect as me)
Ohhhh! can I have a house point & a gold star to stick on the classroom wall chart in the corner please? :D

and anyway Mr slipshod.....

if you woz as perfect as you... :|

you would have sussed out how to get your barrow to hover... :eek:

like the Daleks did... ;)

so you can get up places that don't have ramps!! :D :^O:^O:^O:^O:^O

 

Theorysparky

Domestic Electrician
Joined
Feb 18, 2008
Messages
4,233
Reaction score
0
Guys

thanks for those replies

just wanted to cover my bottom cos you know things like this have a habit of coming back at you

Spesh i was in bed but up at 2.30 with a sick 13 yr old

she painted the kitchen floor with a hint of .............

 
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
Messages
13,618
Reaction score
296
Guys thanks for those replies

just wanted to cover my bottom cos you know things like this have a habit of coming back at you

Spesh i was in bed but up at 2.30 with a sick 13 yr old

she painted the kitchen floor with a hint of .............
Too much information! :( :( :(

just put me off me lunch! :_|

 

Theorysparky

Domestic Electrician
Joined
Feb 18, 2008
Messages
4,233
Reaction score
0
yes,but he does a periodic inspection and test also.

LIMITATIONS - VISUAL INSPECTION ONLY

I thought this was what he was refering to.

sorry, :x
Sorry Guys i might have misled you on this post.

I do Pat testing on all the landlord provided items

At the same time i do a visual on the installation sockets/switches/bonding

i test the smoke alarms

i test the rcd (its not uncommon for them not to trip)

and make comments accordingly on my paperwork,,,but with something that has ,in my opinion, a sufficient danger potential for the tenant then i will raise the issue and provide a price for the fix

This informs the agency that there are safety issues.From this they decide what action to take because if the tenant injures themselves then a

disclaimer is their cover if it goes to court. Im covered the agency is covered and the landlord is on his own.

One of the agencies i work for said if they were taken to court that they must show 'all reasonable precautions were taken'

hence the disclaimer for me and the agency

As the Don is a landlord his views would be appreciated

hope this is clear

 
Top