Does Kitchen Have To Go Onto A Separate Circuit?

[PeteDel]

A friend of mine has recently moved into a rented property and requested for some extra sockets to be fitted in the kitchen, to be honest it looks as if a 5 year old has done the work.

Two double socket outlets have been surface mounted above the worktops and out of these comes a 1.5mm t+e not even clipped to the wall just hanging loose, I followed the cable and on the other end is a plug top, plugged into existing socket under the worktop, out of one of these new sockets is a 4 way extension lead which runs the other side of room near the door, gas cooker with electric ignition is plugged into the extension along with washer and dryer.  my friend asked me to look at this after the extension plug top had melted.

There is no rcd protection as the board is rewirable fuses.

After kicking off and threatening to report landlord to letting agents and fire service, landlord has agreed to let her employ an electrician to bring install up to current standards.

Im going to do a pir today and giving landlord a quote for required works. I just need to know if when swapping old board for rcd board am I required to split the kitchen from the rest of the downstairs ring final? or assuming the circuit passes ir test can I keep the existing ring and mark label on cu as downstairs inc kitchen.

 

[NozSpark]

It might not be how you'd wire it from scratch, but there's nothing particularly wrong with a single downstairs circuit. However you should take account of the expected loads on the circuit in the design

 

[PeteDel]

It might not be how you'd wire it from scratch

that's exactly why I asked the question. thanks

 

[ProDave]

As  Noz said, nothing wrong with one circuit.

BUT the situation you describe with multiple cascaded extension leads is not up to standard.

So as a very minimum get all the sockets incorporated as part of the ring final.

Surface wiring for additions like that is often unavoidable, to avoid having to strip tiles off the wall and re tile afterwards. But it really should be contained in mini trunking which can look okay if done neatly.

Is it a first or ground floor property?

If it's ground floor, then you really should have rcd's on all the sockets. Current regulations require it We all know new regulations are not retrospective, but even the previous 16th edition required an rcd on sockets likely to be used to feed outdoor stuff (i.e near a door or arguably a window) so get your electrician to fit an rcd if one is not present. 

 

[binky]

no requirement to split off kitchen, but if not hard to achieve, then it would be good to do.

 

[Evans Electric]

As the  guys have said , if you are happy with loading of the ring covering the ground floor then go with it.    

I agree with Noz ,  if planning a new install the standard now is to go with a seperate ring for kitchens .

On one we did recently , small house , one kitchen ring and one for the rest , up & down.    I've been to many houses ,  3 up- 3 down  with just a 3 way Wylex doing the lot ......

1) Lights

2) Plugs

3) Cooker

Things change.

 

[kerching]

Well I've just done a " bit of a kitchen and extension job "

2 cooker circuits

4 socket circuits

Cct for fridge

Cct for freezer

4 ccts for lights

2 for OS lights

Sub board for comms

Fibre to each room

2 x cat 6 to each corner of each room

Ditto shotgun coax

Cct for coffee machine

All,on RCBOs

It is what he wanted....it is what he got....he was more than happy

These are the only type of domestic jobs that I like, or will even consider

Just happy......

 

[Andy™]

if you need to ask if the kitchen should be on its own circuit, then you are not competent to be carrying out a PIR...

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

if you need to ask if the kitchen should be on its own circuit, then you are not competent to be carrying out a PIR...

+1..

My thoughts exactly... :Salute

Get someone competent to do a PIR, (EICR), Then you quote for any remedial work they suggest....

Any sensible Landlord ought to get at least two quotes anyway for any suggested work........ :C

 

[binky]

please don't start on new members again. Some of the young-uns struggle from poor standards of training, at least he's here trying to further his education.

 

[Andy™]

please don't start on new members again. Some of the young-uns struggle from poor standards of training, at least he's here trying to further his education.

if he doesnt know if a kithcne should be on its own or not then he is not competent to be doing PIR's. there isnt really any defending this point. but that doesnt mean he's useless at installtion work etc though

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

please don't start on new members again. Some of the young-uns struggle from poor standards of training, at least he's here trying to further his education.

"PeteDel Member Since 24 Jul 2011"

hardly new member...

rather "OLD MEMBER"  Nearly 2 years  (1 year 10months by my calcs??)

Just because someone may or may not have had poor training..

surely doesn't mean we must also dumb down accurate answers ..??? 

Or are we suggesting that for any member with less than 25 posts we must ignore the guidance of BS7671 and never be honest with our answers???? 

As Andy said...

It is a different skill set between installing electrical circuits to inspecting existing installations... 

AND GN3 clearly states you must be competent with sound knowledge of the types of installations you are inspecting etc......

So how hard is it to read the Regs and/or OSG and to know if any regs say that any particular room has to be on its own circuit???

:C

:coat

 

[Nicky Tesla]

remedial work required to bring the installation up to standard..............remove plug from initial socket................£250 please

 

[binky]

I repeat this is the friendly forum.  Not that I particularly disagree with comments. Anyway enough of that i'm not getting into that argument again.

 

[PeteDel]

now that you have all finished sharpening the knifes.  I was fairly sure that kitchen could remain part of the downstairs circuit in the event of a cu change but just wanted some clarification from people who are more experienced than myself.

I don't work with electrical installations as a full time job, completed my 2330 in 2011 and 17th last year. the courses ive been on taught nothing in relation to old installations, just how things should be done now from scratch.

I thought whole point in internet forums was to share information/opinions/best practice.

 

[m4tty]

Hi mate I understand exactly where you are coming from and I don't carry a knife so no worries there lol.

I've been qualified about 4 years but still do not carry out pir/eicr's as I just don't posess enough knowledge about old installs to carry it out correctly so I hand these over to more experienced. Might be an idea on this one until till you become more experienced??

Btw my maisonette ex council built in 74 all singles in conduit using conduit as earth with ALL sockets on one ring and its never tripped in 12 years I've been there. Wouldn't do it on a rewire but can't see a big problem with it

 

[binky]

PeteDel, the guys get a bit peed of with semi brain dead types who are quite dangerous to themselves and general public, so can get a bit pointy at times.. Do please hang around here a bit more often, it is a good place to learn, and its always worth searching previous discussions as many questions have been asked before. I know what you mean about todays courses, they just don't teach retrospective standards. The number of times I've come across 'you need a new board, it hasn't got 2 RCDs' is incredible. usually from the recently trained who don't know any better. What is a little worrying is that whoever taught you is also wrong, there's no requirement to seperate kitchen under 17th edition, it's just considered very good practice to do so. Worth reading the NICEIC guide to completing periodical inspection reports, it's on here somewhere.

 

[PeteDel]

Binky, its funny you should mention that NICEIC book, I bought the earthing & bonding and wiring solutions books a couple of weeks ago and have ordered the pir guide from ebay just waiting for it to arrive

 

[binky]

It's not a book, just a general Best Practice guide, but I'm sure they will sell you a book as well :slap   The NICEIC have gone rather commercial!

now that you have all finished sharpening the knifes.

would that be a kitchen knife :coat

 

[PeteDel]

would that be a kitchen knife :coat

Not sure, its quite an old knife so im not able to tell :innocent