Eicr and Aluminium Twin & Earth Cables

[mort2376]

Been asked to give a second opinion on an eicr report done by an Niceic company.

Now I know Eicrs are down to the person carrying out the inspection and I'm not wanting to reopen the can of worms about Napits Codebreaker book.

right hopefully that will keep this on track

So tns system 25mm tails 16mm earth and 10mm main bond according to page 2. All good there.

But page 3 3.6,3.7,3.8 C2 as no main bonds according to the description. Hmmmm ok. Maybe standard template used and copied and pasted. Not a good start buy hey

C3 as enclosure not metal so not fire rated. I agree C3 but I thought they were fire rated just not as good ??

4.10 presence of rcd 6 monthly test notice tick

4.18, 4.19 C2 no rcd protection

5.8 C2 no cpc on lighting circuit with metal lights

5.12.1, 5.12.2 C2 no rcds

5.12.3, .4 & .5 all ticked so they must have invisible rcds

6.1 C2 no rcd.

OK so a few issues, but nothing I haven't seen before.

But they have also made a C2 observation as follows.......

"Alliminium conductors throughout rewire recommended"

Now according to the certificate installation is 10years old. According to a quick websearch property was built 1967-1975.

So yes there could be aluminium conductors, but is this a C2 ? Would you rewire just because cables are not copper ??

I'm going to the property tomorrow to give it a quick scope out. Ir readings ok on all but 2 circuits. Downstairs lights l-e 0.14 l-n 0.17 and socket circuit l-e 2.57 but >200 for l-n and n-e.

Oh and the company can do the rewire this weekend in a day with a team of 5. But no plastering and apparently they don't make a mess.

So what's peoples opinions ?

I don't want to post the full report as I don't want to have to edit it to remove names and logos.

I've never had someone say rewire because of Ali conductors. So am very interested in others opinions.

Right I'm off for an ice cream, a cool cider and to sit in a cold bath.

 

[Fleeting]

Depends how they are terminated. Aluminium or copper clad aluminium conductors are not suitable for tunnel type terminals at accessories or distribution boards they are too fragile. If you look at US accessories where aluminium is common place they terminate under screw heads or stab in connections. A few years back I replaced some consumer units and jointed them to push fit connectors and terminated using copper conductors including all accessories. Here is the consumer unit you can see the connectors at the bottom.

 

[mort2376]

I'm guessing they are just terminated "as normal" as I'm guessing the cu has been replaced as 1975 would still be Wylex 3036 I would guess. I was only 4 at the time ! Lol

 

[peterspurs]

Your having a look we all often see the odd mistakes on other peoples certificates seems a bit cheap certificate hit with remedial work to me
Seen that far to often
C2 on fuseboard,fuse box, consumer unit, ccu, distribution board, electric box & you mean that thingy under the stairs (other locations available)for been plastic only
Springs to mind
Sorry if I missed anyone out

 

[Sensai]

Without seeing it this sounds like the only reason for the c2 is the connections made at the cu? The actual wiring will have been compliant at the time (copper shortages in the 70s) and while not ideal is not potentialy dangerous or up to current standards any more than lots of historic items. Handy they can come back and rewire it this weekend with a team of 5 after stating that though

 

[binky]

you can't fail for having Ali cables.

 

[mort2376]

From what I've read ring mains in Ali were done with 4mm, but circuit chart says 2.5.

Did they go from Ali to tinned copper ?

Is there a quick way to tell the difference ?

 

[binky]

From what I've read ring mains in Ali were done with 4mm, but circuit chart says 2.5.

Did they go from Ali to tinned copper ?

Is there a quick way to tell the difference ?

I've only ever encountered Ali cables once, a very large cooker cable was confuding me by being very light in weight

The thing to look for is any cabling alterations, as these would alsmost certainly be copper FTE, and where Ali and Copper cable meet you can get corrosion of the Ali - any joints needed to be coated in a special compound that prevents this.

Overall I would say the EICR sounds like a crock of Rose Fertilizer, Ali cables were always physically much larger, so 2.5mm is highly unlikely.

 

[Fleeting]

From what I've read ring mains in Ali were done with 4mm, but circuit chart says 2.5.

Did they go from Ali to tinned copper ?

Is there a quick way to tell the difference ?

Aluminium breaks very easily just wiggle one at a terminal it won't take much to break it. Lighting cables will have been solid 1.5 and power stranded 4.0.

 

[mort2376]

I'm convinced they are tinned copper.

The sockets are 2.5 stranded. The 1mm are also stranded. They don't feel any more flexible than copper twin and earth.

I'm thinking it was a cowboy eicr by a company looking for work.

I've found so many other mistakes in the report it's not worth the paper it's printed on.

 

[kerching]

Seen
Copper
Copperclad
Tinned

NOT seen Ali on FTE
If Ali it will be very light and snap if someone passes breaks wind

Could have been done at the end of imperial,cables
7/.029 power bit bigger than 2.5
3/.029 lighting bit bigger than 1.5

 

[binky]

Seen
Copper
Copperclad
Tinned

NOT seen Ali on FTE
If Ali it will be very light and snap if someone passes breaks wind

Could have been done at the end of imperial,cables
7/.029 power bit bigger than 2.5
3/.029 lighting bit bigger than 1.5

concurr, looks like old imperial cable to me.

 

[poni]

can you get 2.5mm2 AL I thought it started at 16mm2,(was this not a trick question "what size AL cable would you use for a lighting circuit" , you cant use AL for small circuits as it will not fit in the terminals)
it does looks like old imperial cable to me .Tinned Copper

 

[Andy™]

From what I've read ring mains in Ali were done with 4mm, but circuit chart says 2.5.

Did they go from Ali to tinned copper ?

Is there a quick way to tell the difference ?

doubt it would be metric.

one way is to burn the end with blowtocrch - copper will glow, ali shrivels back. no good if you dont have a bit you can sacrifice

it does look like tinned copper though

 

[Andy™]

can you get 2.5mm2 AL I thought it started at 16mm2,(was this not a trick question "what size AL cable would you use for a lighting circuit" , you cant use AL for small circuits as it will not fit in the terminals)
it does looks like old imperial cable to me .Tinned Copper

min size by current standrds is 16mm however many houses were wired in 2.5 imperial equivilent ali. there an entire estate near me, everytime i have to go there i hope its a house thats been rewired. its horrible stuff, very brittle and often snaps if youre trying to test or change a socket etc

 

[mort2376]

It doesn't seem that flimsy so I'm going with it's not Ali. And saying that it doesn't need rewiring apart from the downstairs lights as this has 20 gu10 metal downlights. All showing no earth connection.

I'm kinda hoping they are class 2 but didn't have time to investigate on my flying freebie visit.

 

[Fleeting]

Scratch it see if copper shows through.

 

[Barx]

Seen loads of ali in houses. Usually find it is copper coated ali. So, on initial view yu think it is copper, then when you have a bit in your hand (even little off cuts from re-terminating) you realise it is ali. And looking at the end confirms it. It is usually ok, just have to be careful with it as it snaps easy.

See the pic on this wiki link and you will get the idea

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper-clad_aluminium_wire

 

[Fleeting]

It isn't coated it is clad. A copper rod is inserted through an aluminium tube and extruded. The purpose to prevent corrosion to the aluminium.

 

[Barx]

It isn't coated it is clad. A copper rod is inserted through an aluminium tube and extruded. The purpose to prevent corrosion to the aluminium.

Yes, wrong terminology, sorry.

Though, surely if the copper is on the outside, it would be aluminium rod inside a copper tube