Electric test fail.

[Fleeting]

Things I see;
Conductor insulation exposed at the service meter (Code 2).
IP rating not maintained top entries to the consumer unit .
Warning notice missing at the main earth terminal.
Impossible to be accurate on cable sizes but I see no Code 2.

 

[Murdoch]

Do nothing until you get the report

 

[Andy™]

"Interesting, but my guy said he was super busy so wouldn’t request unnecessary work."

so basically admitting if he was quiet he would be requesting unnecessary work

if tails are 25 then this is just creating work.

open ring should be finding fault instead of just changing breaker. fault is still there, and loose connections (which it may be) could still over heat and cause a fire. different MCB won't change this

as for tails through different holes, easiet option is the cut a slot between them and make them 1 hole. earth should really go through the same hole too

 

[daveg]

Thanks for all the replies today - I have learnt a lot. I still can't understand how the tails going through different holes could ever cause a problem and if that was the only thing wrong I wouldn't worry. Andy Keep Calm makes a good point if there is a loose connection somewhere it could cause a fire - how on earth do regulations allow changing an MCB fix this when I am seeing posts on landlord forums about HMOs not being up to date because they don't have spark detectors?

I will go with the £288 to get a certificate for now. The tenants are moving out next month so when the property is empty I will go and see if I can find the break in the circuit. I have got a multimeter and one of those socket checkers so first step is disconnect one end of the ring circuit and go round the sockets until I find one that fails.

 

[ProDave]

so when the property is empty I will go and see if I can find the break in the circuit. I have got a multimeter and one of those socket checkers so first step is disconnect one end of the ring circuit and go round the sockets until I find one that fails.

As it is a small flat, I would first unscrew and inspect the connections at every socket. That in itself will tell you a lot about the instalation.

 

[Andy™]

eddy currents. basically how transformers work. same thing happening to the metal consumer unit. it can cause the steel to heat up. in reality, for domestic use, its not really an issue.

as for changing MCB, cables must be suitably protected. swapping the MCB instead of finding the fault is incompetance. can be done if the fault is removed, like a job the other day. faulty cable, disconnected it and made it into 2 radials until cable can be replaced

break in the ring is probably going to be at a socket, shouldn't be hard to find

 

[daveg]

Thanks ProDave from AmDave that makes sense if thee is a loose connection it is probably worth checking all the sockets if I find one dodgy connection. Is there a maximum value for resistance in a ring circuit?

 

[Murdoch]

Thanks for all the replies today - I have learnt a lot. I still can't understand how the tails going through different holes could ever cause a problem and if that was the only thing wrong I wouldn't worry. Andy Keep Calm makes a good point if there is a loose connection somewhere it could cause a fire - how on earth do regulations allow changing an MCB fix this when I am seeing posts on landlord forums about HMOs not being up to date because they don't have spark detectors?

Not having AFDD's is a C3 in my book for an existing installation. Anybody dishing out C1 or C2 codes for this doesn't understand the regs

I will go with the £288 to get a certificate for now. The tenants are moving out next month so when the property is empty I will go and see if I can find the break in the circuit.

Why bother spending this money when your tenants are about to move out?

I have got a multimeter and one of those socket checkers so first step is disconnect one end of the ring circuit and go round the sockets until I find one that fails.

Using a socket tester will not tell you anything.............. with any accuracy

Surely the best way forward is to get remedial work done when the property is empty AND bear in mind who ever fixes the issues will need to issue certificate(s) to reflect the changes since the Unsatisfactory EICR

 

[Fleeting]

Problem with the ring final circuit is how many conductors are open one, two or three. Did the old report suggest it was a ring final.

 

[daveg]

Brilliant Andy Keep Calm - I can understand the theoretical risk from eddy currents so a hacksaw / multitool cut between the two holes would sort that. I couldn't understand why having a different MCB would be a problem but it seems because the combination of different MCBs would not have been tested to gain approval for the consumer unit.

 

[Murdoch]

Really need to see a photo of the board with the MCB's on view AND the part of the EICR with the list of the issues.

 

[daveg]

Thanks Murdoch.
The AFDDs seems a matter of opinion and it is pot luck on who does the test - a bit like the problem I have - first test was ok with tails through separate holes second test fails and both fail to see the outer insulation removed at the meter.

Its a long shot but £288 gets me legal honest and decent if the place burns down in the next few weeks vrs £250k if the place burns down next week and I have not got a valid certificate and the insurance company fails to pay out.

If I knew a descent electrician I would get them to do the job when the property is empty but it doesn't seem I am having much luck with finding one at the moment. If I do it myself and sort it - great - I will have a valid certificate anyway and am going "no comment" if there is ever a future problem.

 

[daveg]

Thanks Murdoch - "Really need to see a photo of the board with the MCB's on view AND the part of the EICR with the list of the issues."

I don't have a photo of the MCBs and I am not sure if an EICR fail certificate has been provided - it is complicated because it is going through a letting agent but I suspect what has happened is letting agent has asked for an EICR to be done and the electrician has phoned to say it has failed and sent a quote for what is needed for a pass.

 

[Murdoch]

Do nothing until you see the unsatisfactory report. You have 30 days from receipt to act on it

 

[Andy™]

Thanks Murdoch - "Really need to see a photo of the board with the MCB's on view AND the part of the EICR with the list of the issues."

I don't have a photo of the MCBs and I am not sure if an EICR fail certificate has been provided - it is complicated because it is going through a letting agent but I suspect what has happened is letting agent has asked for an EICR to be done and the electrician has phoned to say it has failed and sent a quote for what is needed for a pass.

probably taken all details for EICR but going to do remedials first then issue satisfactory report. you can ask for the report as is unsatisfactory (since you have paid for an EICR...) and then MWC / EIC for the remedials, although some letting agents will still want a satisfactory EICR instead of an unsatisfactory & certs for remedials

you've got 28 days to carry out remedials. if they have left by then, you're good to leave the repairs until after they have gone

 

[Murdoch]

Thanks Murdoch.
The AFDDs seems a matter of opinion and it is pot luck on who does the test - a bit like the problem I have - first test was ok with tails through separate holes second test fails and both fail to see the outer insulation removed at the meter.

Re the tails through separate holes - the first spark wasn’t competent

Re the meter tails - you can’t fail an EICR on part of the installation that the DNO and supplier are responsible for. This can only be a comment

 

[Fleeting]

Thanks Murdoch.
The AFDDs seems a matter of opinion and it is pot luck on who does the test - a bit like the problem I have - first test was ok with tails through separate holes second test fails and both fail to see the outer insulation removed at the meter.

Its a long shot but £288 gets me legal honest and decent if the place burns down in the next few weeks vrs £250k if the place burns down next week and I have not got a valid certificate and the insurance company fails to pay out.

If I knew a descent electrician I would get them to do the job when the property is empty but it doesn't seem I am having much luck with finding one at the moment. If I do it myself and sort it - great - I will have a valid certificate anyway and am going "no comment" if there is ever a future problem.

EICRs have been dragged down so deep with incompetent people two of which you have had I doubt the trade will pull itself out.

 

[Fleeting]

Re the tails through separate holes - the first spark wasn’t competent

Re the meter tails - you can’t fail an EICR on part of the installation that the DNO and supplier are responsible for. This can only be a comment

1.1 on the Inspection Schedule specifically refers to suppliers equipment including meter tails and there is absolutely no reason why you cannot Code a non compliance.

 

[Murdoch]

1.1 on the Inspection Schedule specifically refers to suppliers equipment including meter tails and there is absolutely no reason why you cannot Code a non compliance.

You could Code a non compliance but they can’t be used to fail the inspection

 

[Fleeting]

You could Code a non compliance but they can’t be used to fail the inspection

Why not a Code 2 warrants unsatisfactory (not fail).