Extractor Fan replacement - ensuite

[martyj]

Hi all,

My property is 13 years old and the extractor fan in the ensuite is rubbish. Lots of moisture left after a quick shower, mirror covered, noisy, Sonu think it needs replacing.

I'm not sure if it is standard though, and what the best one to replace it with is, and if it is a job a novice DIYer can do? It has an isolation switch which is currently off.

Also, I know it needs a clean, I have cleaned it recently!

Thanks as always,

Martin.

 

[Doc Hudson]

Hello MartyJ, welcome to the forum.   Are there any other openings in the room such as vents or windows. If the room has no other openings,  is the fan operating correctly with a suitable duration of run-on timer?  (building reg's recommend 15minutes). How long is the ducting before the vent reaches outside? Many people have a fan that is only on while they are in the room that then goes off immediately they leave. This will not have sufficient time to remove residual moist air / steam so will promote mould growth etc. Also to extract air out, there must be an equivalent vent size letting air come into the room. (otherwise the fan is trying to create a vacuum.)  Typically with an enclosed room this requires a 10mm gap under the bottom of the average 760mm door to allow a standard 100mm diameter extractor vent pipe to pull in the same volume of air. Again many people have plush fitted carpets in the adjoin room so there is no inlet ventilation to the en-suit. (a simple test to check the gap is can you poke you fingers under the en-suit door from both sides?). Providing you have appropriate inlet ventilation, adequate timer run-on and the extract duct is not several meters long though the loft void, then the fan should do the job. It looks like a Greenwood Airvac to me?  But if there are several metres of duct to reach the outside it would be better with a higher power in-line centrifugal fan. 

Doc H. 

 

[martyj]

Hi Doc, love the Avatar

There is no over ventilation in the room, no windows, there is a gap under the door but not big enough to get my fingers under, can just about get my finger tips there.

I am a ground floor flat so any ducting doesn't go above I presume, there are vents at the side of the building so maybe it is linked to them? If so that would be several metres of duct.

The fan turns off about 2 minutes after the light goes out, so not sure how to adjust that?

Regards,

Martin.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

The timer adjustments are normally something like the little black variable resistor that I have just highlighted in your photo...

A fine blade screw driver into the white bit should allow it to turn with very light finger pressure...

IT WILL NOT ROTATE FULL 360degree..

there will be a stop point which if you force it can break the adjuster!

generally clockwise increase / anti-clock decrease...

If you can turn power off try giving it a tweak then gently take it all the way clockwise..

Then restore power see how long it runs then...

You could also try repeat the above for the full anti-clockwise position.. to see what the shortest time is.

It may sort your problem just having it running longer..

But as has been said you do need enough flow of air coming in so other air can get out. 



Guinness

Have you taken the inner cover off to dust off the fan blades....?  :C

I use a soft half-inch wide paint brush for dusting these sort of things...

It is amazing how much muck sticks onto a moving blade!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[martyj]

Thanks Spesh, really helpful, will have a look and let you know.

The only thing about having the fan on longer is that most of the time it isn't ideal, eg quick toilet, bed time etc, but if that is the only option I guess it will have to be....

The timer adjustments are normally something like the little black variable resistor that I have just highlighted in your photo...

A fine blade screw driver into the white bit should allow it to turn with very light finger pressure...

IT WILL NOT ROTATE FULL 360degree..

there will be a stop point which if you force it can break the adjuster!

generally clockwise increase / anti-clock decrease...

If you can turn power off try giving it a tweak then gently take it all the way clockwise..

Then restore power see how long it runs then...

You could also try repeat the above for the full anti-clockwise position.. to see what the shortest time is.

It may sort your problem just having it running longer..

But as has been said you do need enough flow of air coming in so other air can get out. 

View attachment 9956

Guinness

Have you taken the inner cover off to dust off the fan blades....?  :C

I use a soft half-inch wide paint brush for dusting these sort of things...

It is amazing how much muck sticks onto a moving blade!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Doc Hudson]

The only thing about having the fan on longer is that most of the time it isn't ideal, eg quick toilet, bed time etc, but if that is the only option I guess it will have to be....

It has an isolation switch which is currently off.

You have highlighted the common problem why people only set a short run duration, yet somehow expect the moist air to all vanish in a couple of minutes after a shower. It's a bit like those warm air hand driers in public toilets that keep switching off after barely blowing a mild draught over your wet hands. If you say you have an isolator switch you could use this a night to turn the fan off during those short bathroom visits. Or there are some more intelligent fan controls that also have a delay before they turn on. i.e. only start operating if the room is in use for greater than a few minutes. But personally I would try to see if you can get an improvement with your current stuff by extending the timer duration and increasing the ventilation in.

Doc H.

 

[kerching]

My decades of experience lead me to think it may possibly be a Vortice fan.......that accompanied with the fact it says VORTICE on the label  :slap

 

[martyj]

My decades of experience lead me to think it may possibly be a Vortice fan.......that accompanied with the fact it says VORTICE on the label  :slap

Ha ha, thanks K.

I turned the dial fully CW and it stays on for 32 minutes! The only way of increasing airflow is leaving the door open, which I often do, so does it mean the fan is not working well if there is so much moisture in 10 minutes?

Would it be easy to replace with a more modern quieter one?

Thanks for all your replies

Martin.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Would it be easy to replace with a more modern quieter one?

Replacing a fan isn't normally too much of a problem....

If you want to do this it would be worth while seeing if you can find out what the extraction rate of the current fan is ...?? 

Then use that as a reference point for any new fan you buy...

Not much point in sticking in a new fan that shifts less volume of air.. :C

You should find the cubic meters per/hour quoted in the spec..  (e.g. it may read something like   85m3/hr)

That said....

If so far you haven't tried it operating with a longer run on timer,  the damp issues may not be a bad as you think...?  ?:|

But on the other hand...  any new fan of equal extract rate,  will shift more air, faster than an equivalent old fan that's be fitted for years..

as the muck stuck to the blades will reduce efficiency.

But..  One other thought...

Have you proved that the extract duct isn't blocked...?

If you are trying to blow down a blocked duct it doesn't matter what fan is doing the work old or new!

Guinness

 

[martyj]

Replacing a fan isn't normally too much of a problem....

If you want to do this it would be worth while seeing if you can find out what the extraction rate of the current fan is ...?? 

Then use that as a reference point for any new fan you buy...

Not much point in sticking in a new fan that shifts less volume of air.. :C

You should find the cubic meters per/hour quoted in the spec..  (e.g. it may read something like   85m3/hr)

That said....

If so far you haven't tried it operating with a longer run on timer,  the damp issues may not be a bad as you think...?  ?:|

But on the other hand...  any new fan of equal extract rate,  will shift more air, faster than an equivalent old fan that's be fitted for years..

as the muck stuck to the blades will reduce efficiency.

But..  One other thought...

Have you proved that the extract duct isn't blocked...?

If you are trying to blow down a blocked duct it doesn't matter what fan is doing the work old or new!

Guinness

Thanks Special, very helpful.

The exact fan I have is here:

Vortice 11976 ARIETT T Centrifugal Extractor Fan with Timer (For use with 100 mm / 4 Inch duct) https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00G974ZK4/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_9rqUCb6FS4XAX

Seems like a decent spec? I do not know how I would find out if the duct is blocked. I think what I will do is give it a decent clean, set the time to 15 mins and monitor moisture.

Thanks again!

Martin.

 

[Apache]

Do you know where the fan vents to? You could close the door with it running and set off a smoke bomb? Get someone looking outside.

As long as you don't have sprinklers etc

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Do you know where the fan vents to? You could close the door with it running and set off a smoke bomb? Get someone looking outside.

As long as you don't have sprinklers etc

As "captain cow" suggests...

even if you can't see where it goes to..

Some of these cheapo smoke matches may give an indication of how quick the fan is extracting stuff out of the room....

https://www.toolstation.com/smoke-matches/p46046?store=GD&utm_source=googleshopping&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=googleshoppingfeed&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIj_-Fr-fa4QIVSLHtCh00xgAuEAQYASABEgLwAPD_BwE

BUT... double check for no smoke detectors that could set off alarms in the whole building...

Shut the en-suit door, set the fan to operate...

Then strike up a smoke match just below the fan...

See which way the smoke goes... Or NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
 

It may well give a different perspective on what the fan is or isn't doing???

Guinness

 

[martyj]

Great advice chaps, thank you  :Applaud

 

[martyj]

The timer adjustments are normally something like the little black variable resistor that I have just highlighted in your photo...

A fine blade screw driver into the white bit should allow it to turn with very light finger pressure...

IT WILL NOT ROTATE FULL 360degree..

there will be a stop point which if you force it can break the adjuster!

generally clockwise increase / anti-clock decrease...

If you can turn power off try giving it a tweak then gently take it all the way clockwise..

Then restore power see how long it runs then...

You could also try repeat the above for the full anti-clockwise position.. to see what the shortest time is.

It may sort your problem just having it running longer..

But as has been said you do need enough flow of air coming in so other air can get out. 

View attachment 9956

Guinness

Have you taken the inner cover off to dust off the fan blades....?  :C

I use a soft half-inch wide paint brush for dusting these sort of things...

It is amazing how much muck sticks onto a moving blade!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 Great advice special. The fan and innards were a mess. Working much better now after I cleaned it all up!

 

[ProDave]

That is a centrifugal fan. Normally MUCH better airflow than an axial fan.

If it is not working very well have a look at the ducting. Very common for ducting to be laid badly across a loft and to simply block up.

 

[Evans Electric]

My decades of experience lead me to think it may possibly be a Vortice fan.......that accompanied with the fact it says VORTICE on the label  :slap

I too read the word Vortice  and eventually came to the decision that the fan itself could possibly be a Vortice ...also after decades of experience .

Usually a fine fan , its a centrifugal  as Prodave says  , also as Dave says  , I'm looking at the last photo ....the duct looks totally clogged up  to me .  

I'd say :-

Shove the  Hoover pipe up the duct .

Check the outside  gorilla for blockage .  

Increase the run -on time to max  .   You NEED to extract all that moisture and it can't do it in 10 mins . 

Fan could well run quieter without trying to push air through that lot.   

 

[Sidewinder]

Also please remember that you can't suck air out of a room if none can get in to replace it!

That is if you room is sealed then your fan won't extract any air because none can get in to replace it, your smoke bomb test will help with that too.

Try a room clearance test.

CAREFULLY!

If you use a smoke match or smoke bomb to fill the room and then start the fan and close the door, noting that the smoke could be harmful, cause damage etc, so make sure it can't.

See if it comes out of the fan extract outlet, and at a good speed, if not open the door, very slightly so some air can get in and keep it there whilst viewing the smoke outlet and see what it's like then.

If more is coming out, it means that the room is too well sealed for the fan to extract properly, you might need to take a few mm off the bottom of the door, or put a vent in somewhere, door or ceiling into loft to allow the fan to draw air in.

Note also that if you vent into the ceiling ensure that it is not a fire barrier.

 

[Geoff1946]

Personally I would have reservations about putting a vent in the ceiling, as it could lead to condensation in the roof space.

 

[Sidewinder]

Personally I would have reservations about putting a vent in the ceiling, as it could lead to condensation in the roof space.

@Geoff1946, I'm not suggesting putting a vent into the ceiling, I am suggesting putting an air inlet to the room into the ceiling, there is a difference.

The fan must vent to atmosphere outside the building, the whole building should be sufficiently leaky to allow enough make up air to enter, but, the individual room may not be, so that needs air inlets, there are many places these could be located door, exterior wall (but that would draw in cold air from outside the building), interior wall, but that would need a grille both sides, or ceiling this could draw from the attic or between floors which would both allow adequate air to be drawn in as make up air for the fan.

 

[Geoff1946]

I see what you mean, but when the fan is not on natural convection will tend to be up into the above ceiling space, taking humidity with it. I would only be happy if such a  ceiling vent was ducted from outside.