Gas Bonding Dilemma, Please Help!

[Reeceyp123]

Hi, I am an electrician and I work for a housing society.

I am on the dlf team rewiring properties. One of the electricians from the maintenance department asked me why I've bonded the gas at the meter because he's doing a periodic and he's classed it as c2 unsatisfactory and unsafe.

The properties are flats and the meters are street level. I used to connect within 600mm of the pipe entering the building but my boss asked me to bond to the gas meter outside because the plumbers are failing to locate the clip and deeming it to be non compliant.

My colleague says because the bonding is outside the equipotential zone it is dangerous and the same as non bonded.

My boss is going mental because he won't sign off the periodic.

My questions are (eventually).

1. Does this present a danger?

2. Is this non compliant to bs7671?

3. Should it be a c2 or c3 on a periodic?

 

[Reeceyp123]

Thank you in advance

 

[Andy™]

544.1.2 (amd 1, dont have amd3 with me but i doubt its changed)

'....shall be made within 600mm of the meter outlet union or at the point of entry to the building if the meter is external.'

so you putting i outside is non compliant. put it inside as per 7671 and tell the plumbers they are idiots

 

[Sidewinder]

Never a C2, C3 at worst, yes it should be within the equipotential zone, but, the muppet plumbers are incapable of finding it unless it's in the meter enclosure.

I would ignore this if I was working on the property, if doing an EICR, no way a C2, I just could not justify it

 

[Essex1]

1. No

2. Yes

3. C3

Also,

1. Since when did we start becoming governed by plumbers?

2. It has never been permissible to bond outside the house in meter boxes (since I have been in the game) but is very commonly done.

3. Why is this guy signing off your work with an EICR?

 

[Phoenix]

Don't see a major issue.

Strictly to BS7671 it should be at the point of entry. But its going to be a length of copper pipe between the two unlike water there is going to be no possibility of plastic fittings creeping in. Electrically there is little difference so it comes down to strict application of the standard and whats reasonable and convienent

My gas pipe comes out the bottom of the meter box, makes a U shape and heads up the wall into the soffit and enters into the roof space, its bonded in the meter box. Previously it went through the box of the meter box, into a void behind some kitchen base units and into the floor (completely inaccessible to have got a bond on). When the boiler was moved and the gas main re-routed the plumber simply cut out the bit of pipe with the bond on and left it hanging in the breeze. :slap   I simply came along and bonded the new pipe.

 

[Reeceyp123]

Essex1, this is a periodic report 1 year after my eic. We are doing 80 odd flats but for some reason he's picked it up.

 

[Rob_the_rich]

why not bond at the outside meter AND bond inside the property with a loop through the inside clamp?

Everyone will be happy then.

 

[Phoenix]

As it appears that both the OP and the chap having an issue with his work are from the same firm, which I am guessing is most likely NICEIC registered...

Then there is a straight forward answer for the OP... He should ask the company QS what he wants to see...

Which could be: carry on doing it in the meter box and declare it as a deviation

                          bond in both places.... costing extra materials and time

                          bond and point of entry and **** the plumbers

I Know that many on here are critical of the QS system, but in this instance it provides a way out for a site based disagreement other than an arguing match in the mess cabin :B-

 

[NozSpark]

Personally I'd rather see it in the meter cabinet than have to hunt for it under a floor or have it somewhere that a plumber / gas monkey will cut it off and leave it detached..... with a deviation on the certificate

On a similar note... I looked at a job today which has the gas meter in a kitchen unit under the sink and a brand new pipe leaving the meter and going through the exterior wall, around the outside of the house and then back in at the boiler..... bond at point of entry,, it enters twice!! Also the old consumers gas pipe is still buried in the floor,, so thats something else to bond??

 

[Andy™]

in the case of it going outside, unless its in contact with ground, then its unlikely to be extraneous, so at its point of re-entry it wouldnt need bonded anyway, so 1 clamp after meter and youre done

 

[Rob_the_rich]

If people do decide to bond in an external meter box, don't drill through the back of the meter box. This could introduce a pathway for escaping gas to enter the property, in which case the gas monkey would/should classify it as "at risk". If there is a gas pipe entering the property through the back of the meter box, don't be tempted to use the gap between the sleeve and the pipe as a route for the cable either. There should be sealant in the gap on the inner wall which could be broken (if not it is at risk as above). If the supply is medium pressure fed, having the gas pipe and cable sharing the same route would/should also be "at risk". So best to drill through outside the box.

 

[binky]

electrically it makes ****** all difference, seeing as 22mm gas pipe has far more copper than a 10mm bond. An estate of flats we maintain has all the gas bonds done externally, with indoor grade clamps, ho hum.

I would tell plumbers to firk off,  had one the other day telling me his boiler needed cross bonding in his house - dual rcd board.

 

[steptoe]

Dual RCD or not, what about that fkin great big manifold plate,?!?!?! 

 

[Evans Electric]

If people do decide to bond in an external meter box, don't drill through the back of the meter box. This could introduce a pathway for escaping gas to enter the property, in which case the gas monkey would/should classify it as "at risk". If there is a gas pipe entering the property through the back of the meter box, don't be tempted to use the gap between the sleeve and the pipe as a route for the cable either. There should be sealant in the gap on the inner wall which could be broken (if not it is at risk as above). If the supply is medium pressure fed, having the gas pipe and cable sharing the same route would/should also be "at risk". So best to drill through outside the box.

As you say .........  you're not even supposed to drill & fix the box in case gas leaks through the holes.

 

[Tony S]

electrically it makes ****** all difference, seeing as 22mm gas pipe has far more copper than a 10mm bond. An estate of flats we maintain has all the gas bonds done externally, with indoor grade clamps, ho hum.

I would tell plumbers to firk off,  had one the other day telling me his boiler needed cross bonding in his house - dual rcd board.

[SIZE=medium]Equivalent CSA[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]15mm pipe = 35.69mm²[/SIZE]

22mm pipe = 53.28mm²

[SIZE=medium]A bit better that the 10 or 16mm² you’re supposed to run.[/SIZE]

 

[binky]

Dual RCD or not, what about that fkin great big manifold plate,?!?!?! 

precisely Steps, most of the modern boilers seem to have manifold plates that cross bond everythng anyway.

 

[Reeceyp123]

Thanks alot everyone for your thorough responses. This will help alot. As I said my main concern was was it presenting a danger and whether you'd consider it a c2 or a c3. Cheers