Hanchuess batteries

[Oldman22]

This is what I have for them.

 

[Bob Smith]

Thanks. Where do you find such information?

So the LF280K has a longer longevity but it does 0.5C while the LF100LA is 1C could this be the reason?

Now I need to find out what cells HanchuESS is using...

 

[Oldman22]

Thanks. Where do you find such information?

https://www.evlithium.com/eve-battery.html They have a long list with specs there.

 

[johnb2713]

By any chance @johnb2713 do you have the same pdf from EVE but for LF100LA?

No I dont, sorry

 

[johnb2713]

Thanks. Where do you find such information?

So the LF280K has a longer longevity but it does 0.5C while the LF100LA is 1C could this be the reason?

Now I need to find out what cells HanchuESS is using...

All Lithium batteries use 1C as a rule of thumb, the 280Ah have used 0.5C in tests, I dont know why. Then again 0.5c of 280Ah gives 140 amps for 2 hours as opposed to 100 amps for 1 hour on the LF100LA.

 

[Bob Smith]

I think it is not good to be too curious.
I have been exploring the site @Oldman22 provided and I have found a battery 80% DoD at > 9000 cycles!!

https://www.evlithium.com/CALB_Battery/l173f280a-280ah-lifepo4-battery-cell.html
are those batteries so expensive that you don't find them commonly in the proposals of any installers?



I would love to find a ready made one like the Fogstar rack but with this L173F280A 3.2V

@johnb2713 with all your knowledge you could be starting a business of high quality batteries

 

[Oldman22]

You could just set your sights just a little lower and go for this type of kit https://www.fogstar.co.uk/products/...16-lifepo4-battery-bundle-grade-a-eve-lf280k?
You do realise that once its put together its going to be 90+kilo so you wont be moving it far!
6000 cycles is around 16yrs at 1 cycle per day, mine average 2+ days per cycle. The batteries you are looking at with 9000 cycles is around 24yrs. Do you honestly think we will still be using this same sort of energy store in 15yrs let alone 20+yrs.

 

[Bob Smith]

You could just set your sights just a little lower and go for this type of kit https://www.fogstar.co.uk/products/...16-lifepo4-battery-bundle-grade-a-eve-lf280k?
You do realise that once its put together its going to be 90+kilo so you wont be moving it far!
6000 cycles is around 16yrs at 1 cycle per day, mine average 2+ days per cycle. The batteries you are looking at with 9000 cycles is around 24yrs. Do you honestly think we will still be using this same sort of energy store in 15yrs let alone 20+yrs.

I like my investment to last I intend to have a cycle at least once a day because I want to earn passive income as well.
This said. the panels are designed to last +20 years. so I do not intend to change them before that (even if by then, some will surely produce electricity both from the sun and rain (there are R&D going on to generate electricity on such panels)

Anyway. This is also what my wife is saying, why spend so much money on a tech that will be outdated in 5 years....

Regarding the 9000 cycles, I agree I may not be alive by then, but this also means that after 4000 cycles their %SoC will be much higher than those with a 4000 cycle warranty.

Thanks for the link, John provided it already. it seems very good but you need to build it yourself.

Anyway, it is good to dream and when it is decision time , I'll be able to take the best informed decision without any regret thanks to all the alternatives looked at.
Thank you all for your efforts and advice. I need to go back to the drawing board and get a design that makes sense with Victron.

PS: and if I were to still be using the same tech after 20+ years then my ROI would exceed expectation

 

[johnb2713]

I like my investment to last I intend to have a cycle at least once a day because I want to earn passive income as well.
This said. the panels are designed to last +20 years. so I do not intend to change them before that (even if by then, some will surely produce electricity both from the sun and rain (there are R&D going on to generate electricity on such panels)

Remember that the battery isnt dead at 6000+ cycles it capacity has reduced from 280ah to 224 ah, in the case of an assembled pack 16.5 kWh down to 13.26 kWh, still very usable.

Anyway. This is also what my wife is saying, why spend so much money on a tech that will be outdated in 5 years....

That will always be the case, does she still have a twintub washing machine, an iron that is heated in the fire?

Regarding the 9000 cycles, I agree I may not be alive by then, but this also means that after 4000 cycles their %SoC will be much higher than those with a 4000 cycle warranty.

The reality is, the cells are much better than their specs suggest and degredation isnt an issue.

Thanks for the link, John provided it already. it seems very good but you need to build it yourself.

The mason kits are really straight forward to assemble, it wouldn't take much more than an hour to do.

Have a look:

Anyway, it is good to dream and when it is decision time , I'll be able to take the best informed decision without any regret thanks to all the alternatives looked at.

It's a nightmare stage, I had been chewing it over for weeks not having the courage to order the parts, early one morning I pressed the button ordering everything, EVE batteries, Seplos BMS, Victon Inverter, a shed to house it in and though OMG what have I done £3500 spent in 15 minutes

Thank you all for your efforts and advice. I need to go back to the drawing board and get a design that makes sense with Victron.

One thing you can be assured of is the eve cells, mason case and BMS, Victron Multiplus II inverter is a tried and tested combination by yours truly, it works!

PS: and if I were to still be using the same tech after 20+ years then my ROI would exceed expectation

The Mason kits from Fogstar and a Victron Inverter will cost you around £4000. 14kWh usable, in my case I but at 7.5p kWh and supply my house at peak times for 18 hours which would have been at 29.2p kWh so daily I save £3.04 which is over £1100 per year =- 3.6 years pay back, whats not to like?

 

[offgridAndy]

I believe when comparing cells from different sources you need to compare and consider the weight of the cells. Ie 280Ah from EVE weighs 5.35Kg and the CALB one refered to weighs 5.42Kg. If someone offers cells with greater capacity and lighter weight than these quality products then they are pulling your tonker. The cells chemical composition dictates the weight and capacity. If its half the weight and half the price, it may well be CARP, don't touch it.

 

[Bob Smith]

Remember that the battery isnt dead at 6000+ cycles it capacity has reduced from 280ah to 224 ah, in the case of an assembled pack 16.5 kWh down to 13.26 kWh, still very usable.


That will always be the case, does she still have a twintub washing machine, an iron that is heated in the fire?


The reality is, the cells are much better than their specs suggest and degredation isnt an issue.


The mason kits are really straight forward to assemble, it wouldn't take much more than an hour to do.

Have a look:




It's a nightmare stage, I had been chewing it over for weeks not having the courage to order the parts, early one morning I pressed the button ordering everything, EVE batteries, Seplos BMS, Victon Inverter, a shed to house it in and though OMG what have I done £3500 spent in 15 minutes

One thing you can be assured of is the eve cells, mason case and BMS, Victron Multiplus II inverter is a tried and tested combination by yours truly, it works!

The Mason kits from Fogstar and a Victron Inverter will cost you around £4000. 14kWh usable, in my case I but at 7.5p kWh and supply my house at peak times for 18 hours which would have been at 29.2p kWh so daily I save £3.04 which is over £1100 per year =- 3.6 years pay back, whats not to like?

Thanks @johnb2713

I know about the degradation and thanks for the reminder anyway. Nonetheless the less degration the better
This is also what I tell other people (not only my wife ) Those batteries are not like those on a laptop or mobile phone. Pass the warranty, there is still plenty left. This said, some brand (not many) do show on their datasheets the SoC at the end of their warranty and Sunsynk shows 40%!!

I will start another post where I made a new diagram, hopefully more professional looking than my original one. I got a bit of help (maybe the guy is on the forum too) and it shows with Victron.
The thing is even if I decide to build my own battery, I will still need someone to do the full installation and connection.

3.6y pay back is very good. So you don't have any PV?
My 4kWp from 2016, was given for a ~10 year payback but after 5 year, it was payback (part thanks to the Fit, part thanks to not needing the gas to heat the water and of course for self consumption).

 

[Bob Smith]

I believe when comparing cells from different sources you need to compare and consider the weight of the cells. Ie 280Ah from EVE weighs 5.35Kg and the CALB one refered to weighs 5.42Kg. If someone offers cells with greater capacity and lighter weight than these quality products then they are pulling your tonker. The cells chemical composition dictates the weight and capacity. If its half the weight and half the price, it may well be CARP, don't touch it.

See what you are saying about the density but is that not what the different technologies are about?

What about HanchuESS, they use Blade Technology/Cell . Apparently, this tech allows a more compact design. The model that started this post is 9.4kWh (with a 70% SoC after 10 years) weight 72kg while the SolarEdge equivalent is well over 100kg.

for instance this one (no idea if this is the one HanchuESS is using, I asked Friday but did not get any answer yet)
https://www.evlithium.com/LiFePO4-Battery/byd-blade-battery-138ah.htmlThe cell is 2.63kg for nearly 0.5kWh storage, so for a 10kWh battery it will weigh under 60kg (of course you need to add components, a case etc...)

 

[offgridAndy]

I meant comparring like with like as regards the chemistry. So LiFePo4 is a different chemistry from LiPo so density would vary.

 

[johnb2713]

Thanks @johnb2713

3.6y pay back is very good. So you don't have any PV?
My 4kWp from 2016, was given for a ~10 year payback but after 5 year, it was payback (part thanks to the Fit, part thanks to not needing the gas to heat the water and of course for self consumption).

I do have solar PV as well, I just did the calculations on grid charging alone. It is of course much better when I can use the solar if the weather is favourable etc.

 

[Bob Smith]

One for you @johnb2713

I just came across this brand. 80% SoC for 7000 cycles and they also provide nice curves about the battery performance.
I wonder what you think of it. I rarely see such curves so it is hard for me to compare. I wished all manufacturers would provide as much info.


here is the datasheet

 

[johnb2713]

To be honest that just looks like standard LifeP04 characteristics, I have seen very similar plots with other makes. The charging one is an interesting aspect at the end of the charging cycle the almost vertical jump in voltage that doesnt give any increase in capacity. I stop my DIY battery at 3.5v to save energy and to prolong the life.

 

[Bob Smith]

Hello,

I finally got a reply from Hanchu. I requested to send me their power curve for their 9.4kWh Blade battery and they said that they don't have the same type of curve and they send me this instead

Locked to prevent being hi-jacked (again)



Once again. this hit the limit of my knowledge.

If I take the diagram on the top right. I understand that they performed a cyclic test where they
Charge the battery at 1/3C and reach 193.5Ah
Discharge the battery at 1/3C (not sure what Step means)
and repeated this 3 times with a rest for 60min in between

If I understand correctly, the 3-cycle shows that the battery only achieved 193Ah instead of 194
Is my understanding correct?

if I take the two diagrams at the bottom. they have 1# , 2# 3#. Does it mean they got 3 results (to check the repeatability) of the same test? eg
at 2C, they achieved twice (blue and orange) about 94.5% of CC/CCCV whatever that means, and on the 3rd test they achieved 93%

Bottom line, I do not know if the above diagram indicates good results or not.

Here is the datasheet of the battery for your convenience

Thank you