Hello and help required with Timber Frame Rewire

[brucina]

Hello people I hope you are all well.

Just found this forum and want some advice please.

Bought a house built in 1983 and is timber framed.

I plan to rewire as I go whilst I live here.

As we are in lockdown I thought I would start today.

Basically my domestic electrical experience is limited as have always been in electrical maintenance.I have done 17th Edition but it was 16th (or 15th) back in 1979-1983 when I did my City N Guilds.

Yes I know its 18th now !

OK what is the best form of attack  as I stupidly thought if I lift a few boards I would be able to use draw wires and pull new cables in.

I lifted a section of flooring upstairs boarding expecting to see a load of cables dropping down to the kitchen sockets but they seem to be behind the last joist parrallel with outside wall .

How do I get access to those cables that feed down behind plasterboard into accessories without choppin into walls.

I assume that when built the cables were fed through the stud walls before the plasterboard wall nailed on ?

Will I have to chop into plasterboard walls or even do trunking on the surface (I don't really want to do that only as a last resort)

I am getting the plasterers in anyway afterwards so a mess isnt the end of the world ?

Anyone with a good experience in rewiring these type of house could give me a few pointers please ?

I think I am OK with the regs its more the practical condiderations really ?

If you tell me to get a proper electrician I will understand but as we are likely to be in lockdown for sometime I need to crack on with this project to stop me going insane !

TIA 

Regards Bruce 

 

[kerching]

Unless you have the misfortune to live north of the border where wee Jimmy Krankie is the ruler this work will be notifiable to building  Control and require appropriate paperwork

just saying 

 

[brucina]

Thanks for your response Kerching..Yes I did realise that and I know I haven't got Part P.

Planned to maybe rewire and then get board changed tested , inspected and certificated by appropriately qualified person.

I may go down the route of getting it all done by appropriately qualified person anyway.

Just at the moment with Social Distancing and the fact that I can't leave premises I am not sure I could get this done at the moment ?

 

[Murdoch]

Do you have a copy of the 18th Edition?

 

[ProDave]

What makes you think it NEEDS a rewire?  I strongly suspect the original cable will be in good order.  You seem to be making a lot of grief for little gain?

Sure you may want to do some alterations, extra sockets, move some sockets etc, and bring the earthing up to present requirements and a new consumer unit.  That would be a LOT easier.

 

[revjames]

I was called to check out a house a friend was buying. Built in 1970's. Traditional construction, brick with tiled roof. Wiring was pristine. Looked like it had just been put in. All in PVC. I did a few tests and advised customer to just change board and uprate earth bonding. A few extra sockets too. He was insistent on it needing rewiring. (what do I know) I declined the job as I don't really do these (especially occupied) and have a regular job anyway. He got someone else in and they did a pretty poor job. Would have been better with my recommendations. If its all in PVC cable and looks tidy then why not save a lot of bother and get board changed, earth bonding and tested and inspected. Extra power points where needed too.

 

[kerching]

I wired one of the first timber framed houses in Lancashire in about 1984... Scandhüis came from Sweden on a wagon..we had to get a bloke from London to come and show us how to cut a dry lining box into the prefab wall,sections..it was same time as Barratt timber frame homes were rotting because DPMs had been breached

 

[revjames]

There was a company in NZ called Lockwood. Their homes were really good and the outer walls literally locked together and they looked like proper log cabins. The only thing was you couldnt fit anything to the exterior walls. Other than that they were really good.

 

[brucina]

Thanks for all your comments.thats very kind.

The wiring at some of the sockets is poor in that there is green deposits on the copper conductors and some of the terminations are tight and there is no slack to make off again..

I don't see anyway round that unless I just replace the worst cables , but TBH the sockets are not great.

I don't think the original installation was that good TBH.

I take the point that I don't have a copy of the 18th but I did note about the Surge device requirement/or risk assessment.Also aim to put each circuit on RCBO's

The only way I can see to rewire would be to cut holes into the plasterboard and try and fish the wires through.

From what I have seen they cut notches into some ceiling joists rather than cutting holes through the middle.

I do want to put in a few additional sockets and change the singles to doubles etc.

Think if I can do the wiring and bonding then get the board changed over and certified that would be the way to go ?

 

[Murdoch]

Think if I can do the wiring and bonding then get the board changed over and certified that would be the way to go ?

I suspect the spark who does the board change would only certify and notify the new fuseboard ........

And if you have green "goo" that suggests the wiring dates from the 1960's so you should really plan to rewire sooner rather than later.

 

[kerching]

As everybody obviously knows this green goo is degraded di-isoctyl phthalate. It mainly degrades with too much heat and/or the use of cheap plasticisers. It was , as has already been said , prevalent in the 60/70s. However I have seen it in Fitzgerald Trimod light fittings that I installed in the mid 80s...more obvious as the internal wiring is white so it shows up more

just saying

 

[Evans Electric]

You often find wiring  nor accessible on newer housing  , you say 1983  with  timber stud walls & plasterboard  I presume .   You may have to ignore  the original wiring , get some boards up & start anew.     At least you have  floorboards  & not chipboard  8ft sheets .      Consider using Fastafix  boxes  ,  being a maintenance spark  you may know of them .  

If you tell me to get a proper electrician I will understand but as we are likely to be in lockdown for sometime I

You are a "Proper electrician "  albeit maintenance  so house bashing will be new to you.        Imagine a house basher trying to be a maintenance spark .

You'll probably  find you have to cut slots in plasterboard walls  to fish cables through  ,   no consideration will have been given to future re-wiring  ... most modern housing  is  done to  the  "  Nail it in as fast & cheap  as possible  because theres no profit in it"   method , so  probably 2 days    work  ,   wire it in a day ...fit it out in a day , no testing  just move on .        

Edit :    Just noticed your title  says  "Timber framed "     .   You  usually have a problem there of NOT penetrating the  weatherproofing with cables ,  is it finished with brickwork outside ?  

 

[revjames]

how about some photos of it, areas where you think there could be difficulties?

 

[Sharpend]

Lift the flooring and use the existing cables as draw wires to pull in new cables, this way you will not have issues with cutting plasterboard all over the place to access through/past the noggins. 
where you want new sockets then you’ll have to lift flooring assess joist layout in conjunction with studs and place new sockets in strategically best location to minimise headaches.  

 

[brucina]

Again thanks for all your help.

Edit :    Just noticed your title  says  "Timber framed "     .   You  usually have a problem there of NOT penetrating the  weatherproofing with cables ,  is it finished with brickwork outside ?  

Yes Evans Electric it is finished with brickwork on the outside and I will be especially careful to avoid penetrating the memebrane.

In addition the flooring is 8ft Chipboard unfortunately.Yes are those fastafix the same as dry lining ?

Lift the flooring and use the existing cables as draw wires to pull in new cables, this way you will not have issues with cutting plasterboard all over the place to access through/past the noggins. 
where you want new sockets then you’ll have to lift flooring assess joist layout in conjunction with studs and place new sockets in strategically best location to minimise headaches.  

Sharpend the sparks seems to have notched the noggins/joists and then boarded over , therefore the existing cables will be too tight to use a sdraw wires.But I will bear that method in mind as I go thanks.

Thanks again all for your comments , I will put some photos when relevant.

Keep safe and I hope you are all employed in some capacity at the moment 

 

[Evans Electric]

y.Yes are those fastafix the same as dry lining ?

Yes   just the same  .