Help Installing 2 Busch Dimmers

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MaxAbelard

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Have just moved to Germany (don’t yet speak German) and am trying to replace double-gang rocker switch plate with a Busch Dimmer. The current set-up (see photos) has a double face-plate connected by a single frame. The top face-plate is a double-gang rocker switch which turns living-room light on/off (where now only 1 switch is being used; the other was for another set of lights, no longer in use), the lower face plate is a rotary dimmer which controls the lights in the kitchen.

So, I want to replace the double-rocker switch with another Busch dimmer. I went and bought the same type of Busch dimmer as the existing one that controls the kitchen lights and tried to fit it.

The problem is that I now have the new rotary dimmer fitted, but when you turn it on, it switches both kitchen and living-room lights on. Moreover, it is dimming the living-room; and the other Dimmer for the kitchen does not dim, it only switches the light on or off.

So I have two dimmers, one works as on/off switch for both Dimmers (don't want this, want them to be independent) and dims itself, but other Dimmer will not switch on/off independently and does not dim!!? The existing wiring was 1 black wire and 2 yellow wires coming into top double-rocker, and 1 black wire coming into rotary Dimmer. Between both dimmer and rocker was a single brown traveller wire crossing between. I have tried simply to replicate the wiring but to no avail. Any help would be gratefully appreciated. The kitchen lights ….4 x 30 watts. The living room light  4x60 watts.

Notes on photos:

(i) Front view of Busch Dimmers: Original wiring was as the photo shows, except that the rocker switch  on the left (now the new dimmer) had both yellow wires going to it (see photo). I changed this as dimmer were not dimming, and placed wire across to second dimmer, which briefly made both dimmers work. (ii) Front Overhead view of Dimmers:  the orange wire in photos is in fact the Black wire (extended). (iii) The rear-view of the original Rocker switch (to Kitchen, no. 5 on block) had Brown wire going to Top Far Right (right of the ‘L’ ) next to which was the Black wire. I hope this explains things a bit better.

Many Thanks Max
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you do know that they are not the same type of dimmers?

if you look on Google you will find the PDF for both and see where you have gone wrong

I cant see the marking of the terminals from you photo's

so could not tell what you need to do, but it sounds like you are switching the live feed, you will need a phase tester to tell or a lot of luck and time.  

 
The thing that strikes me is there is no 2 way switching involved, so each switch or dimmer should have 2 connections in use.

You appear to have 3 connections in use on each dimmer. So probably L in and L loop out should be joined together but are now joined via the dimmer.

As ALWAYS did you take a picture or make a diagram of how it was wired BEFORE you disconnected anything?

 
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Hi ProDave and Poni, after posting this on 8-forums, you're the first two to reply! Shame on me, I've clearly done something wrong. Moving on, both dimmers appear to be the same except that the B-2247U has a power rating of 500W/VA and the B-2250U = 600W/VA. Regarding the original wiring I am sorry/stupid for not taking a photo/diagram. However, I do remember the wiring, and as you said ProDave, the old dimmer had just 2 connections, a black wire, and a brown crossover wire connected to above rocker switch. The rocker switch, as per the photo had two yellow wires, their original position can still be seen, and 1 black wire, and 1 brown crossover wire connected (as photo) to top far right 'L' terminal and then across to dimmer below. The black wire for rocker was right beside the 'L' brown wire. Does this help! And perhaps what should I try next. I am very grateful to you both, am completely strapped at the moment. Thanks Max

 
Right you have got your wires well mixed up.

The original dimmer had 2 wires in it, and it should only have 2 wires in it now, but I see it has 3.

So the original dimmer should have the brown link wire and one of the black wires. That is ALL.

The dimmer that has replaced the switch, also only needs 2 connections.  I don't know how the terminals are marked but the common should have the brown link wire and the other black both in the SAME terminal.  It should also have oone of the 2 yellow wires.

The other yellow wire is for the circuit that is no longer in use and should just be insulated and not used.

You might have to experiment to determine which is the in use and the spare yellow wire as that information has been lost.

 
ProDave is correct there should only be two wires on each the arrows pointing in towards the dimmer are the input connections and the one on the left of the dimmers in the photo are the output connections they have a cross type thing

 
Thank you both. I will try to paraphrase what you have said so that I can try this out: (I) leave the 2-wires (as original dimmer set-up) black and brown in arrows pointing towards the dimmer, and (ii) the replacement dimmer should have black wire and brown wire spliced together into 1 terminal (common/neutral) and the 1 yellow output wire to be placed in 'cross symbol' terminal. So, I need to establish which yellow wire is redundant in the new dimmer. How does that sound my friends? Many thanks Max. P.S. Wiring schematic for Dimmer
5890c35f95de1_Busch-Dimmer20Schematic_zpsurtmcuei.jpg.8a90fcd57dbc4ee437e8febf0b0d4819.jpg


 
Forgot to mention also, that if you zoom-in on the photo of the 2-Busch Dimmers you can see 4 terminals, with the 2 in the middle marked with incoming arrows, 1 to the right marked with an outgoing arrow, and then 1 to the left with the cross symbol (common/neutral)

 
Will try and do this tomorrow morning. Would be great if you could confirm if I am on the right lines. Cheers, Max

 
ProDave and poni, hope I am not asking to much here, but also just noticed that 1 of the 2 yellow wires has a very thin black stripe down it ( I just thought it was dirty!) the other yellow is clear, and both were in the rocker (arrows pointing out) terminals. Many Thanks again for all your help, Max

 
Just to say ProDave and poni, thanks again for the help. I tried for about 2-hours but failed! Did as said, bottom (original kitchen) Dimmer working fine on its own, but when connect the other Dimmer the same thing keeps happening, i.e., new dimmer for living-room turns on and dims at the same time turn on kitchen dimmer and that works too, indeed, you can turn on/off the kitchen dimmer and the living-room dimmer stays on and works, however, if you switch off the living-room dimmer, the kitchen switches off also, so it seems that the on/off on one switch is controlling the on/off on the other. Go figure. Max

 
Swap the two blacks over and try again.

Do you have any test equipment like a volt meter?

 
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Hi ProDave, yes I do have a volt meter, when I tested to the 2 black wires, only 1 was coming-up as hot, and that is the wire I placed in the top dimmer with the 1-yellow wire. This is the photo I took. The hot wire is marked is marked with black/brown/orange. I am pretty sure I tried them the other way around too. Any thoughts
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ProDave, as you can see (barely) each dimmer has 4 symbols above terminal; 2 in the middle are marked incoming arrows; 1 on your right is out-going arrow; and 1 on far left is cross. Max

 
ProDave, will have to try this tomorrow, as I am away from home until then. Just to clarify: the top (living-room) dimmer already has the brown in the outgoing, so where does this yellow now go as , if I put brown wire of bottom dimmer into outgoing (not as now on cross) then there will be no outgoing terminal left, unless I splice 2 together. Does this make sense (I feel like such an idiot!) Thanks Max

 
By the way ProDave, the wiring you see now is the same for the rocker switch, and as I did today, connect back the top rocker switch, using the same wiring as the dimmer picture shows, and the rocker works perfectly as a single on/off switch, and the bottom dimmer works fine, no confusion between the two, each switches on/off independently of each other. Max

 
The brown link wire in the top switch of your diagram should be in the SAME terminal as the black wire.

forget the fact that some terminals are linked internally, put two wires into ONE physical terminal.

 
Hi ProDave, Ok, just to clarify, the brown wire of top switch (Living room Dimmer) should be spliced with and into the black wire (Hot) terminal of same Top Switch Dimmer, i.e., move brown top wire once to the right. If this is the case I will try this again tomorrow. If you can, I would be grateful to know what each of these wires is doing exactly; I understand the top hot wire (live feed) and the yellow (live feed to light?); but the bottom black wire and brown traveler wire I don't completely understand. Again many thanks for your help. Max P.S.,

 
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