Help! My tenant has recently changed to a smart meter now Economy 7 not working to storage heaters /water cylinder

[Charms41]

Hello, i wonder if any of you knowledgeable people out there can help. My tenant has just changed to a smart meter. As soon as this meter has been installed the overnight electricity supply to the storage heaters and water cylinder has stopped working. Initially we thought it was the water heater and changed the element but after that discovered that no overnight electricity supply, hence it’s not working.

There is a separate fuse board for these overnight economy 7 items. All fuses are in on position.

Power supply company saying it’s not a problem with their new meter. Seems highly likely to me as this power supply stopped as soon as it was fitted. 

I’m just even wondering how you can go about fault detection on a supply that only turns on overnight??

what can I do.

thank you for your anticipated advice. Charmaine  

 

[Andy™]

if it worked and now doesnt, demand they come and refit the old meter and that you want someone competent and not a barely trained monkey to do it

 

[Murdoch]

Very few meter installers understand economy 7 ................ so I would agree with above and tell them to come back. 

If in the meantime your tenant is using peak electricity to heat their water, then you need to claim for these costs too

 

[ProDave]

Well your tenant created a problem for HIMSELF so I would suggest your tenant gets onto his electricity supplier and demands they change BACK to an ecomony 7 supply.

As far as I know smart meters are not available for economy 7 so you could argue the supply company was wrong to "offer" the smart meter, but your tenant was equally wrong to accept it. you do NOT have to accept a smart meter and there is no proven advantage to the customer of having one.

 

[Andy™]

any pics of the meter? id like to see were the off peak cable is suspended in mid air

 

[ProDave]

I’m just even wondering how you can go about fault detection on a supply that only turns on overnight??

There is plenty of dead testing you can do on the off peak circuits to confirm they will work when the off peak supply comes on at night.

 

[Murdoch]

As far as I know smart meters are not available for economy 7 so you could argue the supply company was wrong to "offer" the smart meter, but your tenant was equally wrong to accept it. you do NOT have to accept a smart meter and there is no proven advantage to the customer of having one.

Is this true?

 

[Hefferl]

I had exactly this happen to a client of mine. I spoke to the energy provider and it turned out that some part of the process at their end had not taken place - the issuing of a code or number or something similar.

They did what ever was necessary on their system and assured me everything was resolved and would kick in that night.

It did and no 2nd visit to the premises was needed.

 

[Charms41]

There is plenty of dead testing you can do on the off peak circuits to confirm they will work when the off peak supply comes on at night.

 

[Charms41]

So if all else fails then I can get someone out in the day to try and fault detect. It just seems very much of a coincidence that they’ve had this meter fitted and within 24hrs they are reporting fault with water cylinder. Changed element thinking it was that but still didn’t come on. Then tried heaters and they didn’t come on either. Eon engineer came back out today to say nothing wrong with meter but I can’t see that it is anything else?? 

Am I right in thinking that it is the energy companies responsibility to put right. Got a feeling this is going to cause me a right headache. I’m feeling very stressed. Already cost a fortune on unnecessary boiler repair

I had exactly this happen to a client of mine. I spoke to the energy provider and it turned out that some part of the process at their end had not taken place - the issuing of a code or number or something similar.

They did what ever was necessary on their system and assured me everything was resolved and would kick in that night.

It did and no 2nd visit to the premises was needed.

 

[Charms41]

Also the water heater now working off normal supply so I know it’s not the cylinder.

 

[Doc Hudson]

Changed element thinking it was that but still didn’t come on. 

It sounds to me as though you are using the cheapest, unskilled, incompetent method of fault detection here. Why would anyone change anything that they haven't proved is actually faulty? In my opinion any competent, qualified, and experienced electrician, would be able to test and identify how your system is now set up and offer suitable guidance to any remedial action required to bring it back to how you want it configured. But if you are expecting to get this sort of experience at DIY handyman hourly pay rates then you may as well just put a bucket on your head and whistle the national anthem. How is this your problem if it is something that the tenant organised?

Doc H.    

 

[Sidney]

Ideally a couple of pictures of the meter and consumer units would help but I don't think the Economy 7 circuits not working is coincidence...

What is your location?

 

[ProDave]

You need a methodical approach.

1)  Confirm by dead testing that the off peak water heater heater and storage heater circuits are correct and working. Tip measure resistance L-N of each circuit at the off peak CU, a working heater element will measure typically 10 to 30 ohms.

2) confirm an off peak supply IS connected to the CU.  If it has just been swapped for a normal smart meter, the meter will only have 4 terminals and no switched off peak output.  It should be obvious if there is a "spare" meter tail no longer going anywhere. A normal off peak supply with either have a separate time switch of some sort, or a modern dual rate meter with a built in time switch which will have a separate switched L output for the off peak consumer unit.

3) confirm the off peak supply is coming on at night. Now you don't want to be visiting your customer in the middle of the night.  So what I do is connect a neon between one of the off peak circuit L's and Neutral, and leave it somewhere visible.  Then instruct your customer to set an alarm, and go and have a look in the middle of the night and tell you (next day) if the neon came on in the night or not.  If it did not, then you have evidence to contact the supplier and tell them the off peak supply is not coming on at night and they need to fix it.  you don't need to worry what needs fixing, that is the DNO's responsibility. 

 

[Charms41]

Thank you all for your replies, I’m in the West Midlands. I’m not an electrician, but I will try and go and get some photos of meters etc.  Will show all your responses to the electrician that I get out, and hope that it gives them some advice as not everyone deals with economy 7. Thank you all for your replies. 

 

[Charms41]

Pro Dave, if I look up a local electrician and have them look at this problem do they need to be specialist in it or will all electricians have some understanding of it. Do I need to ask them anything specific to ensure they can say yes they will be able to deal with it or not? I’m back on the case today. Going to go and get some photos etc later

 

[Andy™]

make sure they know how economy 7 works. many dont

 

[Charms41]

Right here as some photos. These are my fuse boxes inside the apartment 

View attachment 10075

 

[ProDave]

Picture not working

 

[Charms41]

For some reason it won’t let me upload. I’ve been and got photos of meters and all the connections etc but can’t upload them .