Info about smoke/heat alarms in shop.

[pkbristol]

Hi, i'm looking for some info regarding fitting smoke/heat alarms in shops on a job i've just picked up.

Ok info for you guys, one big building, being renovated, ground floor 3 shops, first floor 2 flats.

I'm ok with the fire alarm set up in the flats on first floor. What i want info about is the ground floor/shops.

Fire resistant cable to connect the fire alarms but are the alarms themselves any different to normal domestic alarms ? Also the location of the alarms ? The shops are not going to be cafe's or anything like that, just rented out to tenants to do with as whatever business they want, i think one shop will be a boutique or wedding dress shop, something like that.

Also am i correct in thinking that the shops don't have to be interlinked with the flats above ? Each premise has only to be interlinked with itself ?

Any info or links to info will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Paul.

 

[Sidewinder]

Check the premises FRA this will give you a starting point.

 

[pkbristol]

What is the FRA ?

Thanks, Paul.

 

[PC Electrics]

Fire Risk Assessment

which, iirc, is the responsibility of the owner. So make sure you haven't been stuck with doing it, since you appear to be out of your depth.

 

[Evans Electric]

This happens quite frequently , there have been a few threads on this question . Picking up from Sidey and PC , I see this often , the Electrician on the job suddenly becomes a Design Consultant .

Stuff like this is the responsibility of the Owner/developer etc who then tells you what is required . Its the same with Fire exits/fire doors etc. The carpenter doesn't decide where to put fire doors.

You could look it all up ( or ask on a Forum) but its up to them .

 

[Sidewinder]

pl,

We are not trying to put you off, or be nasty I promise.

It is just the fact that fire alarms & emergency lighting can get you in big trouble if things go wrong!

I know a professional Fire Risk Assessor, at the top of his game, he is an Ex Fire Brigade Fire Safety Office, who was operational before this. Also trained at Moreton.

He told me straight faced eye to eye that within the next 5 years he seriously expects to be in the dock for manslaughter. Not through something he has done or not done perhaps, but certainly as a figurehead. He believes he will not actually be successfully prosecuted, but, he believes he will be charged. Thus he believes that a person or persons will die in a fire, in a building for which he has done the FRA.

Now the reasons could be so diverse and based on information that we don't know, however, this is why he pays a huge amount in PI Insurance, so that these people will get the best barristers and other expert witnesses to get him off and put the blame on someone else, now that blame could go onto the guy that designed and installed the fire alarms or em lighting.

Bear in mind, this is one of the reasons the gas guys have it so good, if things go wrong there is the prospect of multiple fatalities and significant property damage.

Also, the RRFSO is statute law.

So if you are going to take on the role as designer of the installation of fire alarms, smoke alarms or em lighting, I would suggest that you are pretty sure of your facts, have demonstrable competence, be in possession of all the relevant documentation, and have suitable insurances, because the big boys will pin things on you when it goes wrong.

HTH & ATB

 

[pkbristol]

Ah right guys i understand now. Yes i am a bit out of my depth designing the fire alarm system for the shop, i'm ok with everything else though. I was thinking of getting advice from a fire officer or someone of that nature. So what you're saying, to cover my own ass is to get someone else to design the system and i just install it where i'm told to.

Thanks very much for the advice. Paul.

 

[Evans Electric]

Don't think the Fire Officer will advise you TBH M8 If you're going on with it , and work is work as they say, ask at your wholesaler for the technical rep of their FA supplier to to a scheme for you , that should be OK .

Sidey what do yo think ??

 

[SteveT]

Him PK, SteveT Bristol

This will not be a 'domestic' type install.

Call Channel - they will come out, do a FRA, design and commission for about

 

[Sidewinder]

Deke,

I know that LFB were prosecuting one of the "BIG" extinguisher companies (who also do other things) for inadequate FRA's!

However, not sure about the alarm reps TBH.

 

[wozz]

Surely the rep would just spec the best and most expensive system. They have covered their bum that way, and they get a decent sale.

 

[SteveT]

Surely the rep would just spec the best and most expensive system. They have covered their bum that way, and they get a decent sale.[/quoteIn my experience, these guys do what is neccessary and do not over engineer, they want repeat business, they dont install, but look to get the maintainance for their products

eg. large shop, three floors above, required two break glass, four smoke c/w sounder, one heat, four zone panel - total mats around