IR testing Global or Partial (off topic discussion from another thread)

[Riggy]

I used to work with several retained fire fighters, they were trained in "Dynamic Risk Assessment" - I like that phrase, as we all know as the job develops, we often uncover bits of information. Every time we do, we should think about how it affects our risk assessment, and modify of control measures as appropriate.

 

[Sidewinder]

I have been trained in dynamic risk assessment, I had a client ask me the other day to train his people up to do this, it is a valuable skill.

I turned him down as he did not want to pay the course prep costs, but wanted a formal full blown course on the topic.

Many of you already have a lot of skill when it comes to dynamic risk assessment that you don't realise.

 

[ADS]

I would just make clear, IR testing is meant to be done on the parts of the installation you are contracted to work on. If it is minor works then it will be the circuit(s) you are working on, not the whole installation. If it is a full rewire it will be the whole installation. If it is a PIR it will be on the extent of the installation that has been agreed with the client. Even if it is a whole PIR then it may well not be possible to de-energies a whole installation or sub main's DB at the same time. work may have to be done in stages to ensure critical areas still have power whilst testing other areas. This is where the interpretation and skill of the competent person undertaking the work will be applied. Anyone expecting to see a black and white set of rules and procedures in the wiring regulations, telling them how to do every job will be disappointed. Electrical work is a daily risk assessment and evaluation process to achieve a specific task.Doc H.

A very commendable post and, to a large extent, all true.........

all true, that is , to most inspection and testing that we do - not just IR.

We know that different jobs present different circumstances, but that wasn't the issue in the previous thread - the issue was the requirement of the regulations - which was raised by me in support of my initial, ON TOPIC, post.

The conversation went like this:

The OP had said -

"Anyone give me some advice on IR Testing a domestic (tn-c-s PME) install at a socket outlet. I've been asked to replace a light fitting, so wanted to perform an IR test on the lighting circuit as part of my initial verification."

He also said -

"i understand this will not give an accurate IR reading, but if the IR test result for the whole install is within the regs, then the IR of any single cct must compy".

To which I replied -

"IR testing is meant to be done on the whole installation (or section of installation e.g. at each DB) - it's not meant to be done circuit by circuit...........the figure that we need to comply with is meant for the 'whole' installation."

MEANING THAT :- The OP shouldn't worry that he is testing the whole installation, as oposed to just his lighting circuit, as this is the figure required by the Regs, anyway, for comparison with Table 61.

I proceeded to back this ON TOPIC Statement up with the following:

GN3 states: PG 38 :

Simple installations that contain no distribution circuits should be tested as a whole.

Up to this point, there was nothing wrong - the thread was on topic, I had stated a fact, backed it up with a quote from GN3 and responded to a query by the OP.

But there are some members on here who don't like that - they'll try to argue with me regardless....

I then got:

[quote name='Andy

 

[Sidewinder]

ADS,

You are free to do as you wish.

I did not pick you up on the testing I picked you up on your reference.

If you check my later post you will see that I did NOT criticise you broader references.

References are as important as the information that you post and that they contain as one is worthless without the other, this was the point I was making and you missed it because you assumed that I was criticising your test suggestions.

Once again you jumped to the wrong conclusion.

 

[Mr Smith]

mr smith does not understand the complexities

or nuances

of electrical regulations

mr smith is however

well versed in other esoteric matters

many or which are enshrined with huge reference tomes

mr smith therefore understands that there will be differences of oninion

regarding interpretation of particular concise points

as mr smith has to deal with his peers in this manner

on a routine basis

when mr smith sees a thread appearing to devolve into a contest of one upmanship

again

and the main protagonist seems to delight

in causing argument

and snide comments

mr smith begins to get upset

as with the origin of this

offshoot thread

if members cannot post civilly

the thread will be closed

and mr smith will provide infractions

for any parties he considers deserving

thankyou

mr smith

 

[Manator]

And I would concur

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 23:32 ---------- Previous post was made at 23:23 ----------

I am going to be brutal here, it is clear and very evident, that if your fully trained, we can pick that out. If you have passed a two, three, or eighteen week course, we know.

So my advise is do not try to bull, we all know, just ask, and any question will be honestly answered. Behave like a know it all 3 week wonder and you will eventually explode in a cloud of smoke. Knowing nothing, and wondering why.

I think 2.5mm is the way forward, we need that extra 1mm, in a vertically challenged society.

 

[Mr Smith]

I was argumentative - in retaliation.....and yet, once again, I have received an infraction.

mr ads

i was argumentative in retaliation

sounds like something one of my primary school children would say

although it would be

i hit him but he hit me first

they would still be punished

you have indeed recieved another infraction

but you have had infractions from both the moderation

and administration

teams in the past

perhaps that means something

For this reason, I will be cancelling my forum membership later this evening - I would do it now, but I want this post to be read first. (Not sure if there will be access to it once I cancel)

this forum is operated under

free country

rules

you may leave whenever you wish

mr smith would suggest

that if mr ads would rather leave

than address his apparent psychological issues

mr ads may have issues with prioritisation

thankyou

mr smith

 

[ADS]

when mr smith sees a thread appearing to devolve into a contest of one upmanshipagain

and the main protagonist seems to delight

in causing argument

and snide commentsmr smith begins to get upset

Mr Smith,

If these comments are aimed at me, then you obviously haven't read my last post at all - neither have you read the whole of the thread in full.

But, that seems typical of this forum.

You do not need to worry anymore - I have submitted my request to Doc Hudson to remove me from the forum and close my account, effective immediately.

 

[ADS]

And I would concur---------- Post Auto-Merged at 23:32 ---------- Previous post was made at 23:23 ----------

I am going to be brutal here, it is clear and very evident, that if your fully trained, we can pick that out. If you have passed a two, three, or eighteen week course, we know.

So my advise is do not try to bull, we all know, just ask, and any question will be honestly answered. Behave like a know it all 3 week wonder and you will eventually explode in a cloud of smoke. Knowing nothing, and wondering why.

I think 2.5mm is the way forward, we need that extra 1mm, in a vertically challenged society.

What have you been smoking??

 

[Watchdog]

You do not need to worry anymore - I have submitted my request to Doc Hudson to remove me from the forum and close my account, effective immediately.

I can honestly say I won't miss you. I don't like members that give me work to do. If I go a week without a thread to delete or member to reprimand I am happy.

 

[Manator]

ADS no request is required, but I for one am a little upset that you feel this way. I find that any person who is willing to argue a point, and defend, or concede that point, under duress or otherwise, is, and always will be, a valuable member of a discussion forum.

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 23:43 ---------- Previous post was made at 23:41 ----------

It does look like other members do not feel this way

 

[a3]

I for one am a little upset that you feel this way. I find that any person who is willing to argue a point, and defend, or concede that point, under duress or otherwise, is, and always will be, a valuable member of a discussion forum.

Agree

 

[Doc Hudson]

I was dubious about moving the group of posts away from the origin thread, but for Mr Freedomrun's benefit, and seeing these later posts I am glad that I did. This certainly has nothing to do with the OP and it was looking that the thread was deteriorating at a fast pace.

I will also make clear, I enjoy healthy debate from all members. Out of the box ideas are very good to get all electricians thinking again and opening up their regs books. Making an electrician open his/her regs books has got to be a good thing for increasing knowledge and competence throughout our industry.

But I will not accept nor do I condone any member calling other members names (e.g. smart a***s or T*****s)!. Phrases or words that cannot be written down using our full set of 26 letters without any symbols or blanks is not respecting another persons point of view. I enjoy all members contributions, but I do not like disrespect.

Doc H.

 

[a1]

You do not need to worry anymore - I have submitted my request to Doc Hudson to remove me from the forum and close my account, effective immediately.

All forum membership cancelations have to go through me, and me only. I don't see why you wish this to happen as there is nothing wrong with a healthy debate - in fact, My esteemed collegues and I encourage it, as do the majority of the forum members.

Accusions and name calling, however, can be keep for the other forums out there.

Let's keep it mature and sensible on here please?

ADS, if you do feel that strongly about leaving, then PM and I will delete your email address and close your account for you. I would strongly suggest that you have a good, long & hard think about it though, as once it is done, it can't be reversed.