Jo Cox MP

[apprentice87]

Terrible goings on yesterday, however, despite this young woman being subjected to an attack that lasted about 15 minutes, only ONE person intervened and tried to help her, a man of 77 years of age.. He wrestled with the attacker until he was stabbed himself...

Meanwhile, quite a few grown "men" were close enough to be able to describe perfectly to the newspapers EXACTLY what happened, but NONE were man enough to go to the assistance of the brave pensioner or the young woman. The pensioner should get a medal, and shame on the rest of you, load of poofs....





 





john...

 

[Sharpend]

:Applaud  Agree entirely. Should be totally ashamed, it's a no wonder these 'bullies' continue with their pathetic behaviour. Did you see the picture of the geezer arrested, really! And no one tackled him bar a pensioner. 

 

[Essex1]

Terrible events yesterday.  Very sad. 

However; it is all very well sitting back and saying others should have done more. Especially after the event. With all due respect @apprentice87 you were not there. You do not know what happened. Many times I have looked back at an event and said to myself I should have done this or that. At the time though it is all a haze. 

Instead of looking at what people do not do look at what they do do. That pensioner deserves merits of the highest order. To call the others 'poofs' when you do not really know the circumstances is not fair. 

Who knows how they would react with an armed person shooting away and killing people?  I don't. Would I run over, put myself in harms way and disarm the attacker and stand proud?  Or would I think about my son and what would happen to him if I were to die and walk away a little ashamed but still alive to feel this way. 

Who knows. 

 

[apprentice87]

They were a load of poofs, end of... Funny how the pensioner fearlessly stepped in.. I have several times seen awful videos on youtube where someone was being subjected to a terrible attack, and grown men [Tomatoes] that "could" have EASILY intervened, instead chose to video things on their poxy mobile phones...

There was an instance recently, where some loony tried to behead someone, and a member of the public stepped in to help, but later stated that while [successfully] tackling the loony, he was begging for people to help him, and stated that he personally was disgusted because all these individuals that COULD have helped, chose instead to stand there filming things.





 





I am not very well myself, but all the same, i have helped people in car crashes, attempted to resusitate someone that then died in mid resusitate, and intervened in circumstances that i knew could result in me losing everthing, but i was not going to standby and watch a disabled man being bullied, by being locked out of his care home, [as punishment] by his "carers"....  Did i stand there?? er, no, i kicked the tango'd door in and FORCIBLY took this gentleman back inside and sat him down, while the cowards of staff hid out of harms way.. [Funny how they never got the police eh!!] I am still paying for this "mistake" now....





 





The people there were close enough to see he had a shotgun, they saw him discharge 2 shots, now man up, and tango'd charge him before he reloads.....





 





I have PERSONALLY seen tiny 5 foot, 6 stone female nurses tackling very belligerent individuals in a psychiatric hospital, terribly brave nurses...





 





Guess it is all down to character or lack of.....





 





"Or would I think about my son and what would happen to him if I were to die and walk away a little ashamed but still alive to feel this way."





 





A fair and understandable point, but happily, not one that police officers or members of the armed services subscribe to...





 





john..

 

[OnOff]

I've already had this discussion with the missus about what I would do in such a situation. I'm often in central London using public transport etc and tbh I'm constantly on edge. I'd like to think I'd dive in myself. The missus is a bit "But you've got to think of our kids!"

On past personal experience; a serious, gory car crash and a couple of accidents at work witnessed, I've dived straight in, been covered in other people's blood and am amazed how detached but focused I remained so that side of it doesn't bother me. The loon with a gun/knife/bomb. In the cold light of day I'm thinking they need to be taken down ASAP with whatever maximum force you can bring to it. If and when it happens I like to think that I WON'T think!  

 

[apprentice87]

Hi Onoff,

I agree exactly.. The way i see it is this. SOMEONE has to do it, it might as well be me..

In the case of loonys [and drunks and the rest] There is no point in trying to reason with them. ANY attempt to reason or any hesitation will be taken as a sign of weakness, they are in fact, actively "probing" you, to "sum you up" as it were. You need to make a decision; either do nothing, or bring as much force to the situation as you possibly can, and as quickly as you can, there are NO half measures..

"On past personal experience; a serious, gory car crash and a couple of accidents at work witnessed, I've dived straight in, been covered in other people's blood and am amazed how detached but focused I remained so that side of it doesn't bother me. The loon with a gun/knife/bomb. In the cold light of day I'm thinking they need to be taken down ASAP with whatever maximum force you can bring to it. If and when it happens I like to think that I WON'T think!"

Well said that man.....

Dead people and that sort of thing do not worry me one little bit, the worst thing i ever dealt with was a very confused pensioner with a head injury, and possibly a stroke [that caused said injury], that was insisting they wanted to get up and walk off, and had to be restrained from doing so. Happily someone came out of a house to help me that was an army combat medic. I cannot tell you how good this chap was, it was both an education, and an honour to see how this chap dealt with things..

john..

 

[Essex1]

It is very easy to talk a good game. I can see from both side but I do not by this macho pidgeon-poop. 

There is a vast difference between dealing with a horric event after and dealing with a horric event during. When I decided to become a father I made a desicion to always put thst child first. Before anyone and anything. Who knows, these guys may have made a similar decision and considered there childs future more important to them at that time. You cannot blame them for this. 

I often find in life those that talk a good game do not usually back it up. It is when others talk a good game on your behalf then I sit up and listen. 

Please forgive me @apprentice87 when I read your posts with a sly smile and think to myself 'yeah right' because it is so easy to say.  

 

[apprentice87]

You think what you like, it is your right..

john..

 

[apprentice87]

No disrespect intended though Essex. You have kids and i do not, If i did, i might see things differently. Someone once told me it changes your life forever. I shall never know..

john..

 

[Essex1]

No disrespect intended though Essex. You have kids and i do not, If i did, i might see things differently. Someone once told me it changes your life forever. I shall never know..

john..

And absolutely none taken. I am not saying thay I would not react on the way you would. I would like to think I would. All I am saying is we should not pass judgement on those that for whatever reason choose not to put their life on the line. 

 

[binky]

not so many decades ago, the general public was encouraged to 'have a go', and people did. Then over many years it has all turned to 'phone the police and keep yourself safe'. It's not like you have to rugby tackle the offender and wrestle a knife from their hands, just shouting and making a fuss can stop many many things. The fact that people now won't challenge kids misbehaving, people parking in disabled bays etc etc id what has lead to the current position whereby anyone can almost do anything on the streets of Britain with almost total impunity. Policing of society is a matter for all of us.

It also has to be said John that there is awell known pschologial phenomena whereby the more people are standing around watching the less chance there is of anyone doing anything, basically they all wait to see if someone else will do something. Net result no-one acts. I've even seen this at a school fate where 3 or 4 adults wouldn't ask a few teenagers to stop doing something they didn't aprove of (these were nice middle class kids), they were smashing a plastic toy in the play ground and the parents were concerned about sharp bits of plastic being a risk to the children . They stood there bitching and moaning. So I asked the said teenagers nicely, to pick up the broken bits and explained the potential problem to them. They finished smashing the toy up, then picked up the broken pieces. Problem solved, kids happy, parents happy, teenagers now appreciate they have some responsibilty to others.

 

[Evans Electric]

It was indeed a terrible thing to happen ......please don't tell me they have all filmed it on their phones!!.

 

[apprentice87]

Turns out that the 77 year old pensioner [who was the only person to intervene] was a retired member of the local NCB mines rescue team.... Why am i not surprised....

john..

 

[ProDave]

Can I turn this topic around to THAT vote.

Yes it is a terrible thing that happened, but it will be a tragedy for democracy if this event delays, or changes the result of THAT vote. I am sure that would not be what Jo wanted. One nutter who has lost the plot should not be allowed to influence what the rest of the country does.

 

[apprentice87]

That is right, the bloke might have been nuts, but that is not his fault. Turns out that the day before, he had gone, [under his own steam] to some sort of mental health centre to ask for help, and the staff said that they could see that he was having "some sort of crisis" ["Crisis" is mental health professional speak for not well at all]

It is all very well for cameron to say how sorry he is, but it was his party that closed all the hospitals....

The local hospital here, [one of the very few that remain] has a "PICU" unit, that is, a "psychiatric intensive care unit" It is there to help people that are sectioned, as they are a danger to themselves or others.

Now, go on, guess how many beds there are??? ................................................... FIVE........

There was a case round here a year or two back, where a girl of 15 or 16 i think she was, had been arrested by the police using their power of arrest under the mental health act. Apparently, the police took her to the local hospital only to be told they had no facilities for the girl, and, worse, did not know of any available.

The police tried to take matters into their own hands, and telephoned all around the country trying to find a place for this girl. They failed and had to keep her in the cells. The police were so disgusted by this, that they complained themselves, and did their best to help the girl by staying with her, and going to McDonalds for her, and doing all they could to help her. This went on for several days apparently..

If the tory party had not closed all the hospitals [bearing in mind this man tried to get help BUT WAS TURNED AWAY] Jo Cox would probably be alive today............

Now, we pay enough money to the EU to build a new hospital EVERY WEEK,

Draw your own conclusions.......

john....

 

[rapparee]

@apprentice87 You're 100% right. A good boot in the head when he was hunched over her would have ended it.

 

[Sharpend]

The question is was this guy seriously ill or was it a build up of frustrations over the years? How long will it be before there is a major incident of civil unrest in this country and will these persons be labelled as mentally ill? 

Perhaps if the democracy in this country was more democratic then people wouldn't feel as frustrated and would maybe be more open to alternatives? 

There are very few mental illnesses that can't be fixed, so at some point we can all be labelled as mentally ill. 

I am am not in anyway saying that this guys behaviour is acceptable and he shouldn't of been stopped, merely saying that the use of mental illness is over used as an excuse. 

 

[ProDave]

What I can't work out with this is will it strengthen the case for leave or remain?

I have no doubt if had had been Muhamid Thingumyjig, a recent "refugee"  that had comitted the murder, it would have strenghened the case for leave, but a "home grown" Englishman? will that strengthen the case for remain, or make no difference?

I hope he gets tried for murder, none of this diminished responsibilty stuff because he was "mentally ill"

 

[Essex1]

What I can't work out with this is will it strengthen the case for leave or remain?

I have no doubt if had had been Muhamid Thingumyjig, a recent "refugee"  that had comitted the murder, it would have strenghened the case for leave, but a "home grown" Englishman? will that strengthen the case for remain, or make no difference?

I hope he gets tried for murder, none of this diminished responsibilty stuff because he was "mentally ill"

I personally have not thought in the slightest about the referendum when thinking about this story. 

 

[ProDave]

I personally have not thought in the slightest about the referendum when thinking about this story. 

Only because a result of this, campaigning on both sides has been suspended, and Parliament is being recalled on Monday to debate the matter.

That in itself is likely to change the outcome.  Arguably if "remain" just SHUT UP it might strengthen their case, as all they keep saying seems to just swing it more towards leave.