LUTRON RANIA dimmers and 12v track lights

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pixie6

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Hello everyone -

Please could anyone help me with this ongoing problem:

I have 2 rooms - each with two 12v tracks on the ceiling. Each track has 4x50w spotlights with a Mode 210 Electronic transformer on it. Total load 400w per room. There is a Lutron Rania single non-IR dimmer controlling each room (capacity 500w), and the two rooms feed into a double 2-way normal rocker/toggle switch on the stairs (so that we can turn one set of lights OFF as we go upstairs and the other set ON above us).

The problem is: the Lutron Ranias are not working. Power is going to them because a single green light appears on each of them at the bottom of the line of little lights, but they do not respond to the pressing of any buttons, or from the normal on/off 2-way switch on the stairs.

My electrician has tried replacing the Ranias with normal non-dimmable rocker switches and the lights come on fine, and the 2-way switch on the stairs works perfectly too. So it is not a general wiring issue.

It is not a transformer compatibility issue either because I have spoken to a technician at Mode Lighting who make the transformers and they assure me they are correct.

The Lutron Ranias are not faulty because I have tried several different ones.

My electrician wired the system according to Lutron's own diagram for compatibility with non-Lutron accessories. He is therefore completely foxed.

Lutron told him twice that normal 2-way rocker switches should work fine with the Rania - so no need to buy the Rania double accessory dimmer for the stairs.

Do you think it sounds like a programming issue? I have tried the programming instructions that Lutron supplied for the Rania dimmer, but still nothing. Maybe they need special programming when they are put with 2-way rocker switches and not the Rania accessory ones. I am getting no joy from Lutron technical support. I do not know what to do.

Any advice hugely appreciated.

 
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Hello everyone - Please could anyone help me with this ongoing problem:
Hello Pixie6... welcome to the forum...

looks like your post has been overlooked?? :( :|

probably hols etc.. distracting the other bod's

as I read through I am just going to confirm I have understood correctly what you are saying..... (it may help others reading as well?)

I have 2 rooms - each with two 12v tracks on the ceiling. Each track has 4x50w spotlights with a Mode 210 Electronic transformer on it. Total load 400w per room. There is a Lutron Rania single non-IR dimmer controlling each room (capacity 500w)' date=' and the two rooms feed into a double 2-way normal rocker/toggle switch on the stairs (so that we can turn one set of lights OFF as we go upstairs and the other set ON above us).

[/quote']

To summaries:-

two rooms each with Lutron dimmer operating 400watt load (12v via mode trany)

each room also continues two way switching to standard double gang two switch. (stairs)

The problem is: the Lutron Ranias are not working. Power is going to them because a single green light appears on each of them at the bottom of the line of little lights' date=' but they do not respond to the pressing of any buttons, or from the normal on/off 2-way switch on the stairs.

My electrician has tried replacing the Ranias with normal non-dimmable rocker switches and the lights come on fine, and the 2-way switch on the stairs works perfectly too. So it is not a general wiring issue.

[/quote']

So all works correct in "traditional" two-way, non-dimmer switching?

It is not a transformer compatibility issue either because I have spoken to a technician at Mode Lighting who make the transformers and they assure me they are correct.
Transformers are correct?

i.e. you mean' date=' 400watt(or higher rating) and dimmable?

The Lutron Ranias are not faulty because I have tried several different ones.
Several???

have you proved they can work your lighting arrangement in One-way switching..

i.e. by-pass your two way stairs switch???

My electrician wired the system according to Lutron's own diagram for compatibility with non-Lutron accessories. He is therefore completely foxed.
I must say at this point..

assuming your electrician is a reasonably competent qualified spark' date='

(not a friend doing a bit of electrics)

That if an electrician on site... who can actually see & test stuff first hand is foxed....

Then it may be a bit of a long shot to be able to work out the problem from a PC screen in the land of interweb! :( :|

However... we wont give up just yet! ;)

Lutron told him twice that normal 2-way rocker switches should work fine with the Rania - so no need to buy the Rania double accessory dimmer for the stairs.
Have you actually tried a Rania accessory dimmer in your circuit to prove the wires/lights/transformers and existing Rania dimmers?

Do you think it sounds like a programming issue? I have tried the programming instructions that Lutron supplied for the Rania dimmer' date=' but still nothing. Maybe they need special programming when they are put with 2-way rocker switches and not the Rania accessory ones. I am getting no joy from Lutron technical support. I do not know what to do.

Any advice hugely appreciated.[/quote']

I know it can be very difficult for some of these support phone line staff when you are not actually seeing first hand what is being described to you... It is easy to misinterpret what you are being told.. :(

Have you proved the Rania dimmer will work two-way with another standard switch..

e.g. wire up a separate temporary lamp via the switches.. power it via a 13a plug on bit of flex and prove the individual components??

Thats about all I can think of at the moment.. :|

{just to add I haven't actually had any direct personal experience of these dimmers or there set-up programming etc..

so if I have missed something completely obvious.. you can slap me round the head with a Wet Fish!! :) :D :D:O;)

But the principal of basic fault finding should still apply!}

sorry can't be much more help.... (& for the delay relpying)... :(

Hopefully one of the other guys may be a bit wiser..? :) :)
 
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I hadn`t posted a reply to you, as I`ve had zero experience with the Rania gear! :(

Would agree with SL`s assessment, and general logical progression. :x

Have they worked at all? ever?

Will they work if fed to a GLS lamp instead of tx`s?

What do Rania have to say on the subject?

Sorry I can`t be more helpful m8. :(

 
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{just to add I haven't actually had any direct personal experience of these dimmers or there set-up programming etc.. so if I have missed something completely obvious.. you can slap me round the head with a Wet Fish!!}
I hadn`t posted a reply to you, as I`ve had zero experience with the Rania gear! :(
Oh well! :|

Thats completely screwed up the expertise reputation of this site then! :(

Were Dooooomed!!! :_| :_| :_| :_| :_|

who can save us now???

Theory,

Slipshod,

NOZ,

Steptoe,

M107,

BikerMike,

ABCtech,

Admin

ADMIN2!

The Don,

The Don's Boys,

Apache,

Nicky T,

FlyingScotsman,

MrSworld,

SirSparkABit,

Welshy,

McGaw,

Norv,

Badger,

Ext15,

Binky,

Cheggers,

etc..

etc...

etc..

etc...

Mrs KME???????????????????????????????

are we scrapping the barrel yet??????? ?:| ]:) :( :eek: :) :^O :^O:^O

 
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Oh well! :| Thats completely screwed up the expertise reputation of this site then! :(

Were Dooooomed!!! :_| :_| :_| :_| :_|

who can save us now???

Theory,

Slipshod,

NOZ,

Steptoe,

M107,

BikerMike,

ABCtech,

Admin

ADMIN2!

The Don,

The Don's Boys,

Apache,

Nicky T,

FlyingScotsman,

MrSworld,

SirSparkABit,

Welshy,

McGaw,

Norv,

Badger,

Ext15,

Binky,

Cheggers,

etc..

etc...

etc..

etc...

Mrs KME???????????????????????????????

are we scrapping the barrel yet??????? ?:| ]:) :( :eek: :) :^O :^O:^O
You are scraping the barrel if your asking me!

Have you tried tapping them with a hammer?

swearing at them?

sending them back?

?:|

 
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`ey up Special..........................

We`ve got ANOTHER ONE!!!!!

Mr. Apache, sir:

Let me officially welcome you to..............." the Nightshift".

Fast, humorous replies work well on this watch. We give out scoob`s like smarties:x

Admin won`t like it! He wants some interesting peeps on the day shift; but we nab most of `em. :x :x

Anyone with intelligence, who can have a debate; either serious or tongue-in cheek (sometimes simultaneously) is actively press-ganged by us lot.

Probably `cos there ain`t much else happening to entertain us at this time of night!!!!!

And, on that note, I will bid you all "good night".

I`ve actually got "" A JOB"" to go to tomorrow!!!!!!!

So I better go bed in a minute.

Night, all:x

 

mapleford

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Probably a silly error that your spark has looked at many times and just can't see as he's looked at it too many times now, get him to bring along another spark to give it the once over. I'm sure we've all been there but takes a lot of bottle to bring a mate in to find your own stupid errors.

 
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Probably a silly error that your spark has looked at many times and just can't see as he's looked at it too many times now, get him to bring along another spark to give it the once over. I'm sure we've all been there but takes a lot of bottle to bring a mate in to find your own stupid errors.
Very true mapleford..

Been there dun that got the T-shirt on other problems!!! :| :(

It is easy to get stuck looking at the bloomin obvious and then you cant see the wood for the trees as they say...

second opinion often can help? :)

 

pixie6

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Thanks very much for all your friendly help guys - particularly to SPECIAL LOCATION. You are correct on all counts when you summarise the problem. We did a test by wiring up a single Rania dimmer in my lounge to a single Rania slave on the stairs and that didn't work properly either. Control would simply switch from one place to the other - meaning that if you turned the light off on the stairs, you had to go up to the lounge to turn it back on again. Madness. He has fitted several other single Rania dimmers in my house successfully operating recessed downlights in my ceilings. It's just the track lighting with spotlights that they don't seem to work with. I have now given up and got him to put normal toggle switches in the two rooms with a double toggle on the stairs for 2-way switching. This means that the 2 rooms in question are not dimmable which is a real shame. You are right also when you say that it could be one simple oversight by my electrician. He has never fitted Lutron equipment before. He is fully qualified and has certified my house, but I think he rewires pubs normally, so they wouldn't be needing Rania dimmers!

I have one final outstanding issue with my 12v tracklights which might be easier for you to solve for me. Occasionally, some of the spotlights on the tracks flicker ever so slightly. Not totally on and off, but just get slightly dimmer and brighter very quickly. Do you think I should get some electrical contact spray and put this on the spotlights where they touch the track? Otherwise, what could be causing it please?

Thanks, Pixie.

 
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Thanks very much for all your friendly help guys - particularly to SPECIAL LOCATION. You are correct on all counts when you summarise the problem. We did a test by wiring up a single Rania dimmer in my lounge to a single Rania slave on the stairs and that didn't work properly either. Control would simply switch from one place to the other - meaning that if you turned the light off on the stairs, you had to go up to the lounge to turn it back on again. Madness. He has fitted several other single Rania dimmers in my house successfully operating recessed downlights in my ceilings. It's just the track lighting with spotlights that they don't seem to work with. I have now given up and got him to put normal toggle switches in the two rooms with a double toggle on the stairs for 2-way switching. This means that the 2 rooms in question are not dimmable which is a real shame. You are right also when you say that it could be one simple oversight by my electrician. He has never fitted Lutron equipment before. He is fully qualified and has certified my house, but I think he rewires pubs normally, so they wouldn't be needing Rania dimmers!
Oh bum! :( :| looks like the bottom of the barrel may have already been well and truly scraped? :_|

Sounds like your spark should be reasonably on the ball, as he is qualified & can self cert & does some commercial stuff? :)

Are any of your other single dimmers working track lights???

If not...

what sort of bulbs are they working?? and can you get your two-way dimmer to work these sort of lights.?

Can you get two way dimming to work with Any bulb types at all???

If not it must be a dimmer sort of problem?

If the dimmers can be proved working a different type of lighting load..

then the would point toward a problem with your 12v track/transformer arrangement & dimming compatibility?

I have one final outstanding issue with my 12v track lights which might be easier for you to solve for me. Occasionally' date=' some of the spotlights on the tracks flicker ever so slightly. Not totally on and off, but just get slightly dimmer and brighter very quickly. Do you think I should get some electrical contact spray and put this on the spotlights where they touch the track? Otherwise, what could be causing it please?

Thanks, Pixie.[/quote']

Flickering?

I wouldn't start spraying anything..

Sliding the bulb a few mm along the track would wipe or clean any debris if there was any?

Have you tried swap bulbs around to prove if it is a bulb or a lamp holder position?

Is there a length of 12v flex from the transformer to the track lights? How long is it?

Too long may cause volt drop problems & dimming when the supply fluctuates on input to transformer? :|

Check it isn't close or crossing a 230v wire/cable... you may be getting some induced interference? ?:|

If the transformer is built into one end of the track system.. ignore the above two points! (Wet Fish slap time! :( )

Cant think of anything else at the moment...? Hope that helps...

you could always try ......

Gas lights and candles!!! :^O :^O:^O

or B&Q / Halfords / Millets etc.. all have some very nice battery camping lanters...... we have one that can be dimmed!! :D :eek: :p:p:p

sorry.... getting off the point again.....

I will go and see what TheorySpark is doing and have me medication! :| :| :| ; \
 

pixie6

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:D

I guess that humour is the best way forward on all of this. Or candles as you suggest!

The tracks with flickering spotlights do not have built-in transformers; they are separate.

The flex between transformer and track is not very long at all. A few centimetres.

It is not a spotlight bulb issue because two or three bulbs on the same track flicker simultaneously.

As to other higher voltage cables being near, I will check that.

And on your advice I will definitely not start spraying anything.

As for the dimming, I tried a normal rotary dimmer with the 2-way switching and this worked fine except it caused the transformers on the tracks to buzz really loudly which I couldn't cope with so i took the rotary dimmer back to Wickes and got a normal toggle which is on there now. It is just the Lutron Rania dimmer the tracks don't like.

I have given up on that one.

Nothing is easy.

Or maybe nothing worthwhile is easy.

That's my thought for the day.

Have a nice day and thanks again :)

 
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:D I guess that humour is the best way forward on all of this. Or candles as you suggest!

The tracks with flickering spotlights do not have built-in transformers; they are separate.

The flex between transformer and track is not very long at all. A few centimetres.

It is not a spotlight bulb issue because two or three bulbs on the same track flicker simultaneously.

As to other higher voltage cables being near, I will check that.

And on your advice I will definitely not start spraying anything.

As for the dimming, I tried a normal rotary dimmer with the 2-way switching and this worked fine except it caused the transformers on the tracks to buzz really loudly which I couldn't cope with so i took the rotary dimmer back to Wickes and got a normal toggle which is on there now. It is just the Lutron Rania dimmer the tracks don't like.

I have given up on that one.

Nothing is easy.

Or maybe nothing worthwhile is easy.

That's my thought for the day.

Have a nice day and thanks again :)
Sounds like the transformers for the tracks aren't dimmable variety, hence previous problems. You also need dimmer that is suitable for electronic transformer loads. But if you are happy with normal switch leave it cos dimmer switches aren't the most reliable things and are prone to going wrong anyway

 
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Sounds like the transformers for the tracks aren't dimmable variety, hence previous problems. You also need dimmer that is suitable for electronic transformer loads. But if you are happy with normal switch leave it cos dimmer switches aren't the most reliable things and are prone to going wrong anyway
That would be my gut feelings as well binky..

but then pixie did say...

It is not a transformer compatibility issue either because I have spoken to a technician at Mode Lighting who make the transformers and they assure me they are correct.
tis a mystery.... ?:|

Hercule Poroit's phone number anyone? ]:) ; \

(bet thats spelt wrong!? :p ) :^O :^O

 
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Indeed m8 - Poirot would be correct. :) :)
I might of known that you would know that I didn't know how to spell ...

P-o-i-r-o-t.... X( :(

My excuse is... :|

It isn't in my Peter and Jane books? :D :D

well not book 1,2,3 or 4. ?:| :)

which is as far as I got... :p :p

spose it may be in Book 83? ?:|

"Peter and Jane go on the Orient Express"? :^O :^O:^O

Its just a good ruddy job I wasn't an English Teacher!!!! :_| ; \ :( :^O :^O

:x

 
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