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Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees BUT! This is all going to depend on the apprentice in question.

Some, you could explain what you were doing, why it was wrong, but why you were doing it anyway, and they`ll think of it as a bit of "insider knowledge" that makes them special & priveliged.

Others will evaluate what they see, and make up their own minds about what they want to do. You, for example. I showed you how to do this on one of my jobs.

You take on a little hobble, outside of work, and decide you need to pull the cutout. Only the fuse carrier cracks in your hand (its old & brittle) and you`re dead on the floor.

1. How would your family feel about my teaching methods?

2. How will the law feel about my teaching methods?

3. How will I feel?

So, yes. You teach apprentices the tricks. But you don`t teach the naughty tricks. They are either intuited by the trainee/apprentice; or they do it by the book. AKA the "safe" way.

My opinion only guysB)

 
You have to learn the "Adult apprentices" - 'The tricks of the trade" though, Gents. - Surely? :| :|
agreed wiz.

and TBH they should have a little bit more sense to guage what they are capable of undertaking than perhaps a 20yr old,

but also to some extent some things are by experience only,

I can only tell you how bad a 300A 3ph bang is like,

untill u find yourself in the middle of a field after trying to steal power from a local pole you never really realise just how bad,

3 toenails left, and a smart design across my back and inside my legs for almost a year!

explained it to me.!

perhaps thats where your lock page comes in, but how do you gauge entrance.?

 
Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees BUT! This is all going to depend on the apprentice in question. Some, you could explain what you were doing, why it was wrong, but why you were doing it anyway, and they`ll think of it as a bit of "insider knowledge" that makes them special & priveliged.

Others will evaluate what they see, and make up their own minds about what they want to do. You, for example. I showed you how to do this on one of my jobs.

You take on a little hobble, outside of work, and decide you need to pull the cutout. Only the fuse carrier cracks in your hand (its old & brittle) and you`re dead on the floor.

1. How would your family feel about my teaching methods?

2. How will the law feel about my teaching methods?

3. How will I feel?

So, yes. You teach apprentices the tricks. But you don`t teach the naughty tricks. They are either intuited by the trainee/apprentice; or they do it by the book. AKA the "safe" way.

My opinion only guysB)
what i said,

only better,

you can read the apprentice better when your smacking him in person,

100% AGREE

 
There is no right answer to this but I don't think you should be encouraging sparks to work live ie cutting main tails put them live into consumer units. As said every job is different. Calling board out, what are you going to wait for them on the job. You know what its like someone will be with you between 7.30 and 12.00 they then turn up at 1.00pm. I am not saying this is there fault, like all industries they no longer have the staff. I know its not legally right to do it the way I do but I certainly think its safer than messing around with live tails.

batty

 
Do any of you wear appropriate PPE when pulling service fuse or only if your not 100% certain on condition of fuse carrier ie electricians gauntlets and eye/face protection.

Also metal cutouts- are these illegal now and definately need reporting to the dno as urgent remedial work needed?

Whilst on this subject, I had to replace a consumer unit and part rewire for a bloke I know quite well who also works with the Mrs. He had just moved into new house and wanted me to have a look at the electrics.

Their were 2 old wylex CU's with a henley block for the phase/live/line whatever you wanna call it ffs! However both neutrals were in the cutout and all of the tails single insulated.

Forgot to take the meter seal fairy with me (darn!) and basically I put the ball in his park asking him what he wanted me to do regards seals etc.

He said he would inform DNO (central networks) and also ask for DP isolator to be fitted. They gave him a date on Bank holiday weekend (I thought this was strange?) anyway they never showed which is what I expected anyway. Now they have given him a date in July 6 weeks away from previous appointment! So how can electricians run a business when the DNO's act like that and stop us from doing our work as scheduled.

Apparently his wife answered the door to some inspector last week who also wanted to check the electric meter because they have had a lot of fraud in the area. He was happy with what he saw, so I am glad for the customer's sake that no trouble was caused for them.

 
Used to work for a local council doing rewires, policy was to pull the fuse, kind of like an unwritten rule. Did two rewires a week, about ten different teams doing the same. It would never work if you had to wait for the DNO. Have you ever tried ringing them? Some of the people you speak to haven't got a clue, customer wanted TT supply upgrading to PME, took me about 3 hours and 7 phone calls before i spoke to someone who actually understood what i meant!

Take whatever precautions you feel necessary then pull that fuse, if you find a seal that has been cut by someone in the right place, it can be put back so it looks as though it had never been cut......Yer average meter reading numbtie doesn't take much notice of anything else anyway. Anyway i have always been told that all they do is note it down as a broken seal and they send someone out to fit a new one. Obviously if they clock it you know nothing...... ;)

 
Used to work for a local council doing rewires, policy was to pull the fuse, kind of like an unwritten rule. Did two rewires a week, about ten different teams doing the same. It would never work if you had to wait for the DNO. Have you ever tried ringing them? Some of the people you speak to haven't got a clue, customer wanted TT supply upgrading to PME, took me about 3 hours and 7 phone calls before i spoke to someone who actually understood what i meant!Take whatever precautions you feel necessary then pull that fuse, if you find a seal that has been cut by someone in the right place, it can be put back so it looks as though it had never been cut......Yer average meter reading numbtie doesn't take much notice of anything else anyway. Anyway i have always been told that all they do is note it down as a broken seal and they send someone out to fit a new one. Obviously if they clock it you know nothing...... ;)
gawd i wish i knew how to do this highlight stuff,!!!! X(

anyway 2nd or 3rd line down, TT to PME......

WHY?????

FOR GAWDS SAKE WHY??????

are they totally numpty? arent you supposed to advise them???????

WTF is going on in this world where supposedly professional peeps are allowing the great unwashed to ask for something they have no idea how dangerous it is?!?!?!?!?!?

rant over,

back to the subject,

cut a seal at your own risk, I would advise any householder to sue the last 'spark' in the house to the greatest extent of the law if anything happens, cos your public liability wont cover you for breaking the law.

and the reason I ' ' spark is cos exactly the reason that makes us what we are,

the ability to judge the safe-ness of pulling the main fuse/cutting the tails etc.

 
I do a lot of work in villages and 50 per cent of the properties i work in are TT suplies. DNO round here have upgraded loads of the TT supplies to PME as a matter of course, my own house included (Before i moved in). I did try to talk the customer into sticking with the TT supply and explaining what could happen if the neutral was broken or if there was a high resistance neutral connection at the pole but he just wouldn't see it. Anyway, advised and left him to it. I was just giving an example of trying to contact the DNO.... :|

 
Still say pull that fuse though! It's totally impractical to call out DNO every time you need to isolate supply. I live in Rural Norfolk and it can take them a month to come out, come on, are you telling me that i can run a business waiting around like that? On top of that, they don't always turn up. You are living on a different planet to me mate, i live in the real world where time is money and jobs need to get done. I will continue to pull those fuses until there is an isolator fitted in every domestic property... Illegal or not, it's my decision and i'm sticking to it.... ]:)

 
Didn't think you were supposed to work live in a domestic property either. I know it happens but is that any safer?

 
I have, and only on a couple of board changes, worked live...

But only if an Henley block is in place..

(Switch off fuseboard and disconnect from Henley block)

Otherwise, Main HED is pulled.

B)

 
I agree.

The idea of the seals is so that you cannot steal electricity. As long as you you leave the installation in the same or better condition than how you found it I cannot see how the board could have a problem with isolating a supply to work on it. Certain suppliers fit the meters with isolating switches so you can work on them. In an ideal world all suppliers would fit isolating switches or isolating meters. Its not an ideal world so you have to do what you have to do to make a living.

batty

 
gawd i wish i knew how to do this highlight stuff,!!!! X(
Go to the start of the bit you want to highlight mate - as shown on your reply when you "quote" someone.

Hold left mouse button, and move the mouse to the end of the bit you want to highlight. Let go of the button now.

The text you want to highlight is now "lit up"?

At the top of the editor, just above the text, are a number of pretty shapes, and, on the left, three letters:

B, I, and U.

These are bold Italic, and underline.

While the stuff you want to highlight is shown as above, press whichever of these letters (at the top) you want to use. Hey presto - Job done.

Got it mate??

Martyn

 
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