New electric water heater on comfort plus tariff from scottish power

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sportstait

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Hi there, this is our first post so hopefully someone can offer some advice.

We have electric storage heaters and an electric water heater which heats up during the night as part of the Comfort Plus Scottish Power tariff.

We have just had our old water tank replaced with a new one and since this was done, it hasn't worked properly at all. We've had three new thermostats fitted; the electrician told us that the power is going into the thermostats but not coming out (i.e. it's not heating the water consistently). It heats the water for one night, then stops so we then end up with no hot water. The plumber mentioned something about cross polarity. Help

We're really at a loose end and have no idea why the water is heating up, but not doing it night after night. The plumber and electrician seem dumbfounded by the problem.

Can anyone shed some light on what might be wrong?

The latest twist in the tale is that a new thermostat was fitted yesterday, and then we turned on the boost button for two hours and we had lovely hot water. When we woke up this morning again, we had lovely hot water as it must have heated during the night as it should. However, we went to boost the water again this evening for bathtime and...no hot water!

What's going on?

 
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Only suggestion I can make is to find another sparx, who can maybe provide more info than "the power`s going in, but its not coming out."

or try a "heating engineer" - it`s a sparky who knows about central heating systems.

Shouldn`t be THAT difficult for a decent sparx. Not suggesting your guy is bad, but.......

Hope that helps

 

sportstait

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Yes I think that may be the way we have to go. I find it hard to believe they seem unable to resolve the problem. I get the feeling that they have been paid and this is all just a hassle to them.

Thanks

 
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Hi,

Been pondering this one???

I agree 'and' dissagree with KME..

A good electricain should be able to sort this!

I dont think it is a heating engineer problem..

cuz from what I read this is an electric property..

with electric storage heaters and hot water cylinder with immersion heater?

and 'economy-7 type' night switch.

If I have miss read the OP then all that I suggest may be barking up the wrong tree.. :eek: ? :| :eek:

but hey here goes.....

Fundimentally the probelm is an intermitant fault somewhere on the immersion heater supply circuit....

If this is the case there are only a set number component within the circuit.....

{not in order}...

1] Supplyfuse:

2] Horstman economy 7 type switch:

3] (possibly fuse spur or double pole 20A switch somewhere?):

4] Immersion heater element:

5] Immesion heater thermostat:

6] Twin & earth fixed wiring:

7] Heat resistant flex to heater:

8] A night timer switch:

From my experience items 4 & 5 either work or dont work..

dont normally go intermitant???

Items 1 & 6 are very unlikely to be the cause??

2 or 3 could have a dodgey switch.... intermitant contacts through age and load current passing through them???

7 could have a bad connection or squashed under a restraining clamp.. bit of internal arcin & sparking??

8 could be at the wrong time... i.e. power not there when you think its there???

Which brings us back to where KME started ..

Get a gooder spark than the one who has been so far???

Hope this helps..

p.s.

(and makes sence...

just opened another beer cuz its pay day again today..

 
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Congrats to the daughter mate.

??? what`s a volin? (other than a Vole Nest)!!!!!

Geer is Bood stuff, doesn`t it. Gut Buinness is better!!!

and, with ref to OP, as this all started after tank change, the only section of circuit likely to have altered is the flex and its associated connections

 
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Congrats to the daughter mate.??? what`s a volin? (other than a Vole Nest)!!!!!

Geer is Bood stuff, doesn`t it. Gut Buinness is better!!!

and, with ref to OP, as this all started after tank change, the only section of circuit likely to have altered is the flex and its associated connections
"what`s a volin?"

well spotted.... (but now corrected)...

cant be botherd with speeill cheakers!! :D :D:D

"the only section of circuit likely to have altered is the flex and its associated connections"

twas my thoughts entirely! :)

gut feelin... if it used to work before.. somthins been disturbed???? ?:| :|

but beware of the electwickery!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 
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"""spell checker"""???????? What`s that when its at home??

Never use it m8. prefer brain exercise. (though maybe I should program it to activate when it smells the hops???)

Sorry to disappear so quick last night. Foggy brain remembered that alarm was going to go off at 6.45a.m. Decided discretion was good plan, and shuffled off.

 

sportstait

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Thanks very much for all of the responses. We really don't know what the problem is although Special Location's post gives us plenty to think about.

The electrician and the plumber are (allegedly) coming up together on Monday to sort it.

Today, the plumber arrived and ascertained that there is power in the timer box; the cable leading to to immersion heater switch; and then in the cable up to the thermostat. But, when we press the "boost" button the light goes on but nothing happens - no water heats up. Last night about 3am the Off Peak light was on at the timer box, but there was no action in the immersion heater because when we got up this morning the water was stone cold.

So the power is at the timer box and all the way up to the thermostat. Surely it must be a thermostat problem? But this is the third one in as many days that now doesn't work.

Yours, perplexed and stressed!!!

 
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How did they ascertain power present? Not with a "noen tester" by any chance? Just having a thought that it could be a missing neutral - Everything appears live; but there`s no path.

If you`ve fitted three replacement `stats, they can`t ALL be u/s. does the immersion itself have continuity?

Woah, just remembered yesterdays post - scratch my last comment. Immersion won`t work THAT intermittently.....

wait 1 while I re-read posts.................

ok. me back now. Thinking, so don`t worry when the smoke alarm sounds.

with reference to the bullet points so helpfully prepared by my esteemed colleague above:

1] Supplyfuse: - Not the issue. 99% n/a

2] Horstman economy 7 type switch: - Not likely but possible. 65% n/a

3] (possibly fuse spur or double pole 20A switch somewhere?): - Doesn`t fit the symptoms. 90% n/a

4] Immersion heater element: - NO

5] Immesion heater thermostat: - Not 3 times; and not these symptoms. ( unless connections!!!) ?%

6] Twin & earth fixed wiring: - Shouldn`t have been disturbed & doesn`t fit symptoms. 95% n/a

7] Heat resistant flex to heater: - and associated connections - probable.

8] A night timer switch: - Doesn`t fit with symptoms - BUT....

That did just make me wonder if you`ve done anything different with the time switch, which makes it work / not work. (phase supplied via 1 switch; but neutral switched another way - i.e. his spark or plumbit mixed up connections within timeswitch / controller??)

I wouldn`t have considered this likely as, from your posted info I see no reason for ANY of the wiring at that end to have been altered whatsoever.

HTH

KME

 
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"How did they ascertain power present? Not with a "noen tester" by any chance? Just having a thought that it could be a missing neutral - Everything appears live; but there`s no path."

Ditto & double ditto this ??????? :) :) :)

I went to an imm heater fault where there was a 20A dp switch with the neutral NOT switching...

Neutral open cct!! :(

but the live is all there and power to the element!! :(

still could be a dodgey switch or connection or broken wire somewherre?? ?:| ? :|

 

sportstait

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We finally have a resolution to all of the above. We took the advice to change electrician and paid another electrician, who understood electric storage heating, to come and look at the problem. He checked everything and it's definately a faulty thermostat. He thinks that they have had to bend the thermostat so much to get it into the tank that it has broken all of them. He asked why they didn't fit a water tank with the thermostat at the side instead of the one they fitted with the thermostat at the top. I said that they had advise that you can't get them with the thermostat at the side. He laughed and said that you could! I can't say I'm too happy about that as now we are stuck with a tank that doesn't have that much room to get another thermostat in. He suggested a shorter, 11inch, thermostat that won't have to be bent to get in.

I phoned the cowboys ]:) and told them that I had paid someone else to check the problem and that they had to fit a smaller thermostat that they didn't have to bend. They were surprised as they had been waiting for my phone call to tell them the name of the water heater control box because they had wanted to rip that out and replace it!!! That was the final straw and why I phoned the other electrician to check everything. I knew they were guessing at my expense. So anyway they fitted the 11inch thermostat on Tuesday and we have had hot water since.

YIPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE, :^O but no thanks to them.

A big thank you to everyone for the advice, it really helped at such a stressful time.

 
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Yeh. M8

glad you are sorted..

I must confess...

"Bent thermostat" wasn't a high priority on my list of possible causes!!! :( :(

I shall have to remember that one in future to add to the check list! :)

But it all makes sence now!

and as we said a 'good spark' would be able to trace what is after all...

an electical fault with a break somewhere in the circuit! :D :D

 
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