Oh Dear, This Isn't Looking Good.

[ProDave]

A small industrial unit, just a small office really, right on the edge of an industrial estate on the edge of town.

The building is owned by a company down south, and only occasionally used when they have jobs to do up here. So a lot of the time it's sitting empty.

Well before Christmas they had "travellers" move into the car park. Before they were moved on (takes weeks) they had smashed half the windows in the building (though not gained entry) and literally left sh1t in all the doorways.

So the company wanted some security.  They had fitted a substantial height barrier to the car park, and I was there last week starting to install some more outside lighting, and 4 security camera's linked to a DVR.  I was planning to go back on Monday to finish off.  It was only the weather that prevented me going back earlier.

Phone call this morning. The "Travellers" are back.  Local plod has been called and has had a word, but "no gov, we didn't cut the padlock on the height barrier it was already open"

If the flippin cameras had been finished and had been recording we might have been able to prove who did it.

My dilemma.  Inside the building are the other 2 camera's yet to be installed, the DVR, the other 2 outside lights and a load of trunking and conduit. About £400 worth of stuff.

Now I don't feel inclined to go back working alone with that lot in the car park to try and finish the job.

I'm in discussion with a local joiner who also has some work to do there about going together.

My concern, is by the time I get back, the two cameras already installed will be gone, and if they have gained entry £400 worth of kit will be gone.  Who's insurance pays for that if it has been nicked from the premesis? theirs I would hope.

Note to ones's self. NEVER leave £400 worth of kit in an empty building, it would be far safer in my own house.

What would you do?  Try and team up with the joiner and go together, or wait until they have been evicted and go to sort out the mess.

Is it worth me speaking to the local plod do tell them I'm going there to do some work and expect the protection of the law?

I'm thinking of going with the joiner just to finish off some internal work, and get the two already installed cameras linked up to the DVR and get them recording. But I really don't fancy trying to do any outside work with an "audience"

 

[Andy™]

id probably wait until after they are gone

whats your T&Cs say about responsibility of materials?

i doubt plod would give you any 'protection'

 

[Sharpend]

Do the firm own the land and unit or are they renting? If they are renting then is contact the landlord and ask them to provide the protection or police, similarly if the firm own it then explain that the materials are on site and you would like to retrieve or complete said works, ask them to provide protection or potentially cover the material cost. Don't think that going alone or with joiner is a realistic option. Should they turn nasty then you could lose your tools along with the materials.

 

[Evans Electric]

Tell the Plod you are going "Mob Handed" to remove equipment before its nicked .

They will turn up to protect the Travellers/ Gypo,s/ Pikeys  from you as they probably have more civil rights than you anyway. 

PD   If me I'd want to get my stuff out of there as its not paid for yet ,  any chance of taking a few mates with you while you take them down. ?

 

[Sharpend]

Tell the police you'd like to do your bit to support them by taking their dogs for a walk!

 

[Doc Hudson]

With regard to insurance it is my understanding that only the owner of some property or goods can make a claim for loss or damage. So if you have not yet been paid for supplying the goods they are still your property, irrespective of where they are stored. I think anyone else trying to claim for goods they do not own would be committing a fraudulent claim. 

Doc H.

 

[Marvo]

If we work in know volatile areas we just go with three people in two vehicles and we go armed. I would just go and remove the cameras (and cables) that are already mounted and the ones in the building and take the lot home. 

Who's insurance would pay would normally depend on the contract you have with the client.

 

[NozSpark]

Dave,

A lot of the time the "Risk" to any goods delivered to site becomes that of the customer upon delivery,,, depends on your t&c's tbh

Risk and Title of Goods:

(a) The risk in all goods supplied shall pass to the Client upon delivery.

(b) All goods supplied shall remain the property of xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx until all sums due have been paid in full.

 

[Doc Hudson]

If any one of us were the client, I doubt we would accept any responsibility or liability for any loss or damage, unless we had signed some formal receipt or acceptance of delivery for the goods. And insurance companies may want to see receipts as to the value of the goods when considering any claim for loss. 

Doc H.

 

[NozSpark]

And as for the safety of any security camera system once the pikeys are in,,, well it will have recorded them nicking the lot, but you'll have no evidence as they'll have taken the DVR as well!

 

[wozz]

Gypos might take the piss but will rarely do it in plain sight, personally i wouldnt have thought picking up materials would be a problem in and out, pointing a CCTV camera at them would be a waste of time as it would probably just be target practice for catapults.  

Police, i think that will be wasting your breath.

 

[Marvo]

'Cup of tea for the big fella.' I don't think they can be as bad as they're made out to be....surely.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/9ov4TlKlCog?start=48&feature=oembed

 

[ProDave]

Some interesting points and developments.

Someone from the company visited the office over the weekend and saw the work I had done so far which he said he was very happy with) and noted the equipment delivered there. So I have acknowledgement that it WAS there if anything happens to it.

Interesting point about ownership of the kit. My invoice states title of goods supplied remains mine until paid for in full. but they won't have seen my invoice yet so won't know that.

Anyway I've spoken to the joiner. He's been in contact with the local plod. apparently the travellers have been moved off the car park (which is owned by the company, as it the building, not rented) but have set up camp on another adjacent bit of land. So they are not right in your face, but not far away.

The local plod has advised we don't work there alone, and phone them when we go to start work, and phone them again when we have finished.  Bloody hell it sounds like we are working in the Chicago badlands, not the edge of a small town in the Highlands.

Anyway the joiner and I will be going there on Monday, but not until the evening, so that's going to be seriously weird working in the dark under those circumstances.

If I'm not back on the forum on Tuesday, well it's been nice knowing you.

 

[steptoe]

can we get something straight here,

gypsies and pikeys are 2 completely different types of people,

please please stop stereotyping Gypsies with the pikey tag, and stop calling downright scum pikeys, Gypsies,

I know a lot [a LOT] of Gypsies, and they may have a different lifestyle, but they are decent people, and work for a living,

pikies, on the other hand, well, I dont want to write anything that could be construed as slanderous or otherwise on the forum.

 

[Marvo]

I only found out what a 'pikey' was about six months ago. Not sure about gypsies, you'll have to explain. We don't really have either as far as I know although we do get squatters.

 

[ProDave]

Well I am not sure what to call these "people"

They are the sort that literally defecate in the doorways, smash all the windows, and leave loads of rubbish behind when they eventually move on, which has to be cleared up at the owners expense.

I know if I tried to go on holiday in my own caravan and parked wherever I chose, rather than a proper caravan site, I would be moved on. And I know if I dumped a whole load of rubbish, I would be charged. And if I shat in someone's doorway I would be charged. But these people seem to just get away with it.  It's no wonder nobody likes them.

So I think it's fair to describe them as criminals.

Not ALL people that choose to live a nomadic life living in a caravan are like that. but unfortunately this lot are.

 

[steptoe]

Gypsy's, or to be more accurate,

Romany Gypsys are a race of people that are I suppose a sort of bedouin, nomad, or traveller,

pikeys seem to be a more predominant Irish decendant [not a FACT, just my opinion] ,from the original Gypsy peoples,

dont get me wrong here, they are by far the minority, most proper Irish decendant gypsy people are just that, and nothing to do with the pikey element,

its just that you never hear about them, you only hear about the bad element, biut like most things in life really,

its not news if its not bad news.

Well I am not sure what to call these "people"

They are the sort that literally defecate in the doorways, smash all the windows, and leave loads of rubbish behind when they eventually move on, which has to be cleared up at the owners expense.

I know if I tried to go on holiday in my own caravan and parked wherever I chose, rather than a proper caravan site, I would be moved on. And I know if I dumped a whole load of rubbish, I would be charged. And if I shat in someone's doorway I would be charged. But these people seem to just get away with it.  It's no wonder nobody likes them.

So I think it's fair to describe them as criminals.

Not ALL people that choose to live a nomadic life living in a caravan are like that. but unfortunately this lot are.

Dave,

Im fairly certain you have an infestation of pikeys,  :|

 

[Evans Electric]

Who are the ones who pass through Birmingham , smash their way into a park or some private land or the open amenity space  and proceed to pile rubbish and crap all over the place .  They appear to have children who are exempt from attending school, bull terriers without collars and sparkling 4X4s. 

Then we have a load of garage and shed break-ins  , a few Land Rovers go missing and that seems to frighten them away in case their stuff gets robbed so they move on , leaving the City Council's Refuse Dept . to clear up after them .  

 

[boltonsparky]

Go on your own or with a mate you're leaving yourself wide open to trouble but go mob handed with a load of you and it looks like you're looking for trouble, catch 22 situation. Hope you get your materials back.

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

Dave,A lot of the time the "Risk" to any goods delivered to site becomes that of the customer upon delivery,,, depends on your t&c's tbh

Quote

Risk and Title of Goods:

(a) The risk in all goods supplied shall pass to the Client upon delivery.

(b) All goods supplied shall remain the property of xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx until all sums due have been paid in full.

Although i have the same on my paperwork, i believe this is not correct for British law & would not allowed  to be  used in court.