PIR and PI insurance

[NozSpark]

Today I've pretty much been offered the job of PIRing a tyre & exhaust garage, it's quite a large one (5 bays, 3 lifts, large tyre and exhaust store, generator room, 4 offices, shop and petrol forecourt)

Now they have had (or will get) a specialist company in to do the forecourt,,, so I won't be doing any Explosive risk areas...

What level of PI insurance would I need to do this type of PIRing, at the moment I am covered through my PL insurance, but it is limited (will have to dig the policy out)???

I also might have to hire some sort of high level access as they have some HIbays up at about 10m... I do not have a ticket for cherry pickers though (would it be required???)

 

[green-hornet]

You will need a ticket for the picker, but some just dont bother.

Your level of PI should be based on your risk, and should normally cover for any loss or bad advise given.

If you do high value work then get as much as you can. If its just general stuff then I am not 100% sure, but I think mine is about the

 

[NozSpark]

It might have to be out of hours work as I can't see them shutting down for a week or whatever..

I will be difficult to get a picker in as they do have 3 lifts (very inconvenient)

Also they have been operating in this building for the last 30 years and I doubt that it was even tested when it was first put in.. 3 phase this, that and everything else.. loads of little CU's at the head and others through out the building. Most of the cables in the workshop is in metal trunking or conduit and TBH it's in a bit of a state so I can see there being a load of code 2's and probably even some 1's..

I also managed to get the estimate from another company who've priced this job so I know what I'm up against (price wise),, I've also been told that they said they'd be looking at 80% I&T.. personally as it's never been tested I think it should be more like 100%

 

[green-hornet]

Thats the problem with any PIR's, if you find anything wrong you have to go deeper to find any more.

Last one I did was 100%, because like you have said there was no inspection reports available, or was never tested since it was installed.

You may be surprised that the actual cables are ok with good insulation etc, its all the local damage and botch repairs that will get you head scratching.

 

[Andy™]

some access platforms can have a high out-reach, and get above the machines

you would also need a IPAF/other

 

[sparkytim]

Or you could see if they will agree to a LIM on high bay Tests and inspect as best you can.

If IR tests on the high bay stuff circuits give cause for concern then RFI Code 3 would apply.

Not ideal but just a thought.

 

[NozSpark]

Just popped home for lunch....

TBH I don't feel that I can LIM the HIbays as for the most part I don't think that have ever been tested, apart from a few years ago when I repaired a damaged cable to one of them! To do that repair they managed to get hold of a dodgy scaffold tower (which they know I will not use again).

 

[Evans Electric]

Hire a proper aluminium tower , erect it in the bay , don't need tickets for them , add it to your quote.

 

[Sidewinder]

Evans,

Sorry mate, but you DO need a ticket for an aluminium tower!

Believe it or not!

You need a PASMA ticket.

Yes I know, but please don't shoot the messenger!

 

[NozSpark]

Hire a proper aluminium tower , erect it in the bay , don't need tickets for them , add it to your quote.

TBH I think that is the way...

just wondering if it's going to be a 1 man or 2 man job now:coffee

and will have to be out of their operating hours, because thay aren't going to shut shop for several days! :_|

 

[steptoe]

It might have to be out of hours work as I can't see them shutting down for a week or whatever..I will be difficult to get a picker in as they do have 3 lifts (very inconvenient)

Also they have been operating in this building for the last 30 years and I doubt that it was even tested when it was first put in.. 3 phase this, that and everything else.. loads of little CU's at the head and others through out the building. Most of the cables in the workshop is in metal trunking or conduit and TBH it's in a bit of a state so I can see there being a load of code 2's and probably even some 1's..

I also managed to get the estimate from another company who've priced this job so I know what I'm up against (price wise),, I've also been told that they said they'd be looking at 80% I&T.. personally as it's never been tested I think it should be more like 100%

I would NEVER ever state a 100% I&T, how can you be so sure you havent missed something?

Evans,Sorry mate, but you DO need a ticket for an aluminium tower!

Believe it or not!

You need a PASMA ticket.

Yes I know, but please don't shoot the messenger!

is that really true?

I thought that was only if someone else was using it.

I have built towers in some very demanding places(companies) and have never been asked for this.

they have photocopies of virtually all my other stuff for their H&S department (IPAF/IOSH etc), even the calibration certs for my test gear had to be shown,

these guys wont let you stand on a 6" stepping stool, but they will allow me to erect a tower so Im not sure how accurate the info you have got is,(this was about 6months ago, maybe its different now).

even my safety boots must be insulated and non-metallic(in case a circuit is energised or otherwise at potential (possibly by harmonics) by error?!?!?!?)

 

[Sidewinder]

My advice comes from my SafeContractor applcation, my NEBOSH General Certificate studies and the information provided by my prospective tower providers!

Like I said, don't shoot the messenger, quote from PASMA website:

PASMA PROFESSIONAL TRAINING

The Work at Height Regulations 2005, require that the assembly, dismantling or alteration of Mobile Access Towers should only be undertaken by a competent person, or if being trained, under the supervision of a competent person.

So the statutory requirement is WAH regs.

Proof of competence is required, like many situations PASMA cert is probably accepted.

I'll email PASMA at my earliest convenience in my official capacity and see what they have to say about the statutory requirements.

 

[steptoe]

My advice comes from my SafeContractor applcation, my NEBOSH General Certificate studies and the information provided by my prospective tower providers!Like I said, don't shoot the messenger, quote from PASMA website:

PASMA PROFESSIONAL TRAINING

The Work at Height Regulations 2005, require that the assembly, dismantling or alteration of Mobile Access Towers should only be undertaken by a competent person, or if being trained, under the supervision of a competent person.

So the statutory requirement is WAH regs.

Proof of competence is required, like many situations PASMA cert is probably accepted.

I'll email PASMA at my earliest convenience in my official capacity and see what they have to say about the statutory requirements.

sorry, not meaning to sound like I was having a go,

was just surprised that the company I do work for have never mentioned this to me,

could well be a case of them being over pedantic and thinking(wrongly) if I have IPAF then I have PASMA(or it is equivalent).

typical hypocrisy of H&S IMO.