Rental properties and rcd

[Badger]

Hey guys and girls went to look at a job yesterday where people have purchased a property and want to rent it out the fuseboard is plug in mcb from 3036 fuses no rcd protection earthing 6mm main earth no water and gas earth bonds tails are 16mm with 80 amp upfront main head require a 4inch fan in bathroom 6inch fan in kitchen and when I sent them the price they called back saying another electrician had done a report on the property saying it was all ok to start with and the fusebox was fine apar from being plastic not metal discuss if you wish regarding it being a rental property not a private living address  oh and no smoke alarms installed either 

 

[Murdoch]

Interesting observations and my thoughts are:

No RCD - border line - but I do tell landlords that as part of their duty of care then they should add RCD protection

16mm tails OK

6mm main earth ok if TNS

no bonding - needs fixing, unless both are plastic or bonded when they enter the block

Bathroom fan - outside scope of BS7671

Kitchen fan - outside scope of BS7671

No smokes - outside scope of BS7671 - but I do comment on this when doing EICr's

So for me the flat is "unsatisfactory"

 

[Badger]

I've always understood it in new regs as fans are required in the bath ie special location rcd would be needed anyway I'd love to see this report as the new owners reckoned the sparky thought it was fine 

And installation was TNS on an upgraded head and brand new earth block and earth fly lead from outer sheath of supply cable neter rails to head have been upgraded though to 25mm 

 

[Murdoch]

I've always understood it in new regs as fans are required in the bath ie special location rcd would be needed anyway I'd love to see this report as the new owners reckoned the sparky thought it was fine 

And installation was TNS on an upgraded head and brand new earth block and earth fly lead from outer sheath of supply cable neter rails to head have been upgraded though to 25mm 

Fans come under Part F

EICR's inspect to BS 7671

Just reading my new copy of Code breakers - no bathroom RCD protection is a C3

 

[Badger]

Ok thanks Murdoch I've advised rcd and upgrade of main earth already and sent them a price for the fans install prob wont hear back as they are Asian culture 

 

[Murdoch]

Ok thanks Murdoch I've advised rcd and upgrade of main earth already and sent them a price for the fans install prob wont hear back as they are Asian culture 

100% agree

The saying that springs to mind is "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink"

I rarely work for our Asian cousins - cutting corners is their middle name , so send an estimate and never worry if I don't hear from them again.

 

[kerching]

You're right

theyre wrong

youve done your bit.....advised and quoted

not your monkeys, not your circus

move on to next job

personally, if it was me, I would now refuse to do the job even if they said to go,ahead

just saying

 

[ProDave]

I was shocked when I visited a relative in a rented flat in greater London last year. No RCD'd and not a single smoke or CO alarm in the flat.  That would not be allowed in Scotland. There is a check list you have to complete for a rental property up here.  Things do seem rather lax down there?

 

[Murdoch]

I was shocked when I visited a relative in a rented flat in greater London last year. No RCD'd and not a single smoke or CO alarm in the flat.  That would not be allowed in Scotland. There is a check list you have to complete for a rental property up here.  Things do seem rather lax down there?

Hum.

we have friends who live not far from you with a holiday let. Not an rcd in sight ....

 

[ProDave]

Hum.

we have friends who live not far from you with a holiday let. Not an rcd in sight ....

I think, at the moment,  the strict rules only apply to an assured tenancy or a short assured tenancy, and not to holiday rentals.

 

[Badger]

I wouldn't dream of putting people. At risk with lack. Of electrical. Protection I. Think people. Like. This ie Asian cousins are a law unto them. Selves I'm. Not interested if I. Don't hear back at all let them. Get on with it 

 

[Murdoch]

^^ interesting punctuation 

I think, at the moment,  the strict rules only apply to an assured tenancy or a short assured tenancy, and not to holiday rentals.

You would have thought that holiday lets would be covered by the legislation too.

 

[ProDave]

^^ interesting punctuation 

You would have thought that holiday lets would be covered by the legislation too.

They are probably covered by workplace legislation.  I know some responsible holiday let owners that get regular eicr's and PAT testing but not all. We stayed in a holiday let on Shetland last year and not a PAT test sticker to be seen and only 1 smoke alarm.

 

[Evans Electric]

This ie Asian cousins are a law unto them. Selves I

They don't give a shytte about laws and regulations  ,  as you said , different culture  ,    student dies in student let   due to ancient Ascot Gas Heater leaking   Carbon Monoxide...don't give a shytte .  

and sent them a price for the fans install prob wont hear back

Fans  come under Building Regs  ,   although I agree  with you pointing it out  ,  other than actually installing them  , they are out of our remit .  

Self edited  due to the high esteem in which I hold this Forum ,  my apologies for any offence taken 

If they don't fit Smoke Detectors they should be taken to task  .    My experience was that certain people constantly tried to get bogus NICEIC   & GORGI  certificates  , so corrupt that often they would  offer more money for a corrupt cert than actually having the work carried out . 

I've seen the amateur attempts  to fool  the university office that granted a licence to be a supplier of rented properties for students .    Photostats of NICEIC certs in B&W   ,  address tipexed out etc  .  

  So corrupt you 'd never think of some of the tricks that were tried.       Like moving the same disabled granny  from house to house to obtain  free bathroom & kitchen  upgrades   from the council .      

 

[sparky308]

This thread started as a question about rcd protection and has sadly sunk into ugly racism.  Lack of rcds and bonding in rented properties is in no way confined to any particular ethnic group. And the stream of consciousness drivel that veers from smoke detectors to child abuse is repellent.

 

[Murdoch]

This thread started as a question about rcd protection and has sadly sunk into ugly racism.  Lack of rcds and bonding in rented properties is in no way confined to any particular ethnic group. And the stream of consciousness drivel that veers from smoke detectors to child abuse is repellent.

Hum .... the electrical discussion was informative ....

 

[binky]

This thread started as a question about rcd protection and has sadly sunk into ugly racism.  Lack of rcds and bonding in rented properties is in no way confined to any particular ethnic group. And the stream of consciousness drivel that veers from smoke detectors to child abuse is repellent.

unfortuately some cultures are far worse than others, and this comment is based on personal experience.

Going back to original question, if you hired  a car to take family on holiday you would expect seat belts, MOT, legal tyres etc etc as a minimum. But if you owned a series 1 landrover, it's your choice to drive a vehicle with out safety features.

 

[Badger]

i do believe that landlords should be held accountable if a spark has pointed out certain safety upgrades to protect tenants if the landlord doesnt want the work carried out and their tenants get injured or killed.

 

[Murdoch]

i do believe that landlords should be held accountable if a spark has pointed out certain safety upgrades to protect tenants if the landlord doesn't want the work carried out and their tenants get injured or killed.

Under the draft legislation about mandatory EICR's the tenant will be given a copy ........... which is 1 thing the act has got right ..........

 

[UNG]

i do believe that landlords should be held accountable if a spark has pointed out certain safety upgrades to protect tenants if the landlord doesnt want the work carried out and their tenants get injured or killed.

The problem is there are different types of landlords those who keep there properties in good order and meet the requirements and those who do the bare minimum to their hovels and operate under the radar of any legislation or registration then you have those who operate somewhere inbetween the two. Likewise the tenants fall in to similar categories of good and bad

Hopefully some of the legislation being proposed will level the field and clear the bad landlords out but it will rely on the tenant knowing the law and not accepting the cheap "under the counter" rental deal

Under the draft legislation about mandatory EICR's the tenant will be given a copy ........... which is 1 thing the act has got right ..........

The problem with the EICR is that to most people it is meaningless pieces of paper where the satisfactory / unsatisfactory is lost and not clearly on display.

How do you know if the EICR you have is genuine or fake and from recent experience the contractors membership of any scheme is not any guarantee that your installation is safe having seen the remedials carried out by one contractor recently

Unfortunately the draft legislation is very flawed and leaves the current incumbents to manage yet another ill thought out scheme which will no doubt spawn another load of useless courses with the associated worthless exam to be "qualified" for carrying out EICR's

If there was a requirement that EICR's, fire detection, gas certs etc had to be notified whether or not the property was a registered letting to a landlord registration body whatever the outcome then the sector could more effectively rout out the bad non compliant landlords