smoke detectors on FP

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steptoe

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ok guys, can someone explain to me the different types of cable you are allowed to wire smoke detectors in to comply with 17th.? (standard domestic)

and am I right in thinking they MUST be separate circuit.?

the only BS number I recognise is for FP200, maybe Im just being lazy and stoopid but i dont know the other specified numbers of acceptable cable so I been doing mine in FP.

thanks, Albert.

cos this is ****ting my head with all the guys at work trying to tell me different interpetations.

 

Mr Sworld

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Wire them in MICC. No need to RCD them and the house can burn down yet the circuit will still work! :D

 

steptoe

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had suggested that, but one of the guys looked at me as if i had 2 heads,

he hadnt even seen a bit of pyro before,!!!!!

WTF is college for.?????

mostly housing stock refurbs, so i reckon FP on an RCBO is best option,, any thoughts anyone?

 

Mr Sworld

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had suggested that, but one of the guys looked at me as if i had 2 heads,he hadnt even seen a bit of pyro before,!!!!!

WTF is college for.?????

mostly housing stock refurbs, so i reckon FP on an RCBO is best option,, any thoughts anyone?
Not seen pyro before! WTF!!!!!

When I first started I was told that the sign of a good spark was someone who could make off MICC terminations first time!

I'll admit that its a black art nowadays but I can strip MICC with my side cutters quicker than using the rotary tool now.

 
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had suggested that, but one of the guys looked at me as if i had 2 heads,he hadnt even seen a bit of pyro before,!!!!!

WTF is college for.?????

mostly housing stock refurbs, so i reckon FP on an RCBO is best option,, any thoughts anyone?
Bog standard Domestic dwellings..?

If the smokes have battery back up..

ANY type of cable suitable for the voltage can be used!

Quote NICEIC tech manual...

Grade F systems: If battery-operated smoke/heat alarms are interconnected, any type of cable suitable for the voltage and current concerned may be used.
 

steptoe

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Bog standard Domestic dwellings..?If the smokes have battery back up..

ANY type of cable suitable for the voltage can be used!

Quote NICEIC tech manual...

HTH m8. ;) :)
NOT according to 7671 buddy,

and unfortunately I have to work to that with the local authority specs.

I'll dig out the reg tomoz, I couldnt believe it myself tbh.....

 
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NOT according to 7671 buddy,and unfortunately I have to work to that with the local authority specs.I'll dig out the reg tomoz, I couldnt believe it myself tbh.....
I'll be interestred to see that myself...

Cuz "Smoke Detectors"

don't even appear in the index listing of 7671? 16th or 17th? ?:|

Pg 57 O-S-Guide states NO fire retardant properties required for cables.

I don't recall any specific mention of Smoke detectors on my 17th course??? ?:|

Various details for "Fire Detection" systems are listed..

560.7.2

Cables passing through fire risk zones BE2 require must be fire retardant..

does this apply in a DOMESTIC environment??? ?:|

 

steptoe

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yes,

apparently smokes now come under fire detection,

according to local authority housing anyway,

dedicated circuit and fire retardent cable,

its under fire detection, cables/or supplies,

not sure which of my head tbh, LA have been banging my head with rubbish all day, its got to the stage if we do anything at all to the house then gonna have to change CU cos if a circuit is altered in any way then got to make it so no nuisaince to other circuits if it trips, and bathroom then gotta be on own circuit, and not same as shower.!!!!!!

f'in nightmare the 17th, no=one has thought them through,

virtually every PIR I can think of will not only have a code 4 but lots of code !s too,.

 
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yes,apparently smokes now come under fire detection,

according to local authority housing anyway,

dedicated circuit and fire retardent cable,

its under fire detection, cables/or supplies,

not sure which of my head tbh, LA have been banging my head with rubbish all day, its got to the stage if we do anything at all to the house then gonna have to change CU cos if a circuit is altered in any way then got to make it so no nuisaince to other circuits if it trips, and bathroom then gotta be on own circuit, and not same as shower.!!!!!!

f'in nightmare the 17th, no=one has thought them through,

virtually every PIR I can think of will not only have a code 4 but lots of code !s too,.
LA housing!! think this is the crux of the matter isn't it..

Its a bit like the old 16th ed shower question.. Should a shower have RCD supply.

No direct 16th ed reg... BUT manufactures guidance to be followed..

& manufactures sheet normally recommend RCDs. ; \

Going back to Domestic Smokes..

I am pretty sure in a PRIVATELY owned property..

PVC T&E is OK .. so long as batt back-up alarms fitted? :)

Its the old.. ONE RULE applies.. but THE rule changes on who you apply it to!! :( :(

 
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Just to add an extra bit of bedtime reading.. From the "Electrical Installers Guide To The Building Regulations"..

Copy Page 48 2nd paragraph.. 1/3 down page..

"Any cable suitable for domestic wiring may be used for the power supply and interconnection to smoke alarm systems. It does not need any specific fire survival properties
!" :) ;) Thats where I got my understanding of whats appropriate for Domestic from...

But as you say Step's.. its that other small print others may add on:(

unless the council or Housing Ass' say otherwise!!! X( :(

 
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Just to add an extra bit of bedtime reading.. From the "Electrical Installers Guide To The Building Regulations"..Copy Page 48 2nd paragraph.. 1/3 down page..

!" :) ;)

Thats where I got my understanding of whats appropriate for Domestic from...

But as you say Step's.. its that other small print others may add on:(

unless the council or Housing Ass' say otherwise!!! X( :(
Concur.

This is my understanding of the regs as well. With a domestic setup, I generally use 3+E; with colours as previously discussed] :)

HOWEVER - I do not allow that cable to be routed with any other cable, and I generally, wherever possible, provide a dedicated circuit.

 

steptoe

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right, Ive got guys wiring smokes in FP on a dedicated circuit, surface, so can still be on MCB,.

this I can cope with, and TBH Im starting to bend with the LA on this, (shock horror!) :eek: .

but can some one advise me on the doings of having to change CU if we rewire the kitchen and install a shower?

I say its a must, cos single RCD cant give me enough space to discriminate for unwanted disconnection of other circuits(i know thats not the phrase, its half 11 an im getting happy!).

help me please cos me and regs dont agree and im pulling my hair out. whats little left,!

thanks, Albert.!

 
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right, Ive got guys wiring smokes in FP on a dedicated circuit, surface, so can still be on MCB,.this I can cope with, and TBH Im starting to bend with the LA on this, (shock horror!) :eek: .

but can some one advise me on the doings of having to change CU if we rewire the kitchen and install a shower?

I say its a must, cos single RCD cant give me enough space to discriminate for unwanted disconnection of other circuits(i know thats not the phrase, its half 11 an im getting happy!).

help me please cos me and regs dont agree and im pulling my hair out. whats little left,!

thanks, Albert.!
I would suggest a combination of.. ;)

411.3.3 which refers to additional protection for socket outlets & this cross references.. 314.1(iv) & 531.2.4

314.1 is the division of an installation to avoid hazards in the event of a fault

531.2.4 refers to unwanted tripping due to high CPC currents.

314.2 concerns separate circuits not affected by failure of another circuit

522.6.7 refers to buried cables needing RCD protection.

May be others... ?:|

but me brain is slowing down now.! :| :| :(

cant type em all out...

It would tie me fingers in knots! :_| :_| :_|

 

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