socket heights

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dougal

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hi

am I right in thinking that when doing a rewire or partial rewire the socket heights can stay at the current height or do thay have to be move to comply with part M ?

 

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hi am I right in thinking that when doing a rewire or partial rewire the socket heights can stay at the current height or do thay have to be move to comply with part M ?
Yes you are right.

Often consideration has to be made to the existing decor and appearance of the property..

e.g. on a partial rewire.. some existing sockets may be staying?

and look odd with different heights in the same room! ;)

As far as I know new build should all comply with the new height recommendations..

But rewires you have jurisdiction to install as you feel appropriate..

Obviously you would not leave then too low such that to cause damage to plugs etc..

it is my understanding that the same "retrospective" enforcement applies with both the wiring and building regs..

i.e. you do not have to make all aspect of an older property up to the standards of current building regs! ;)

as always.. I am open to be shot down by someone more knowledgeable in this area...? :)

 

kme

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I know an answer!Building regulations are not retrospective and therefore you can leave it the same.

:^O

:D
I too know AN answer, and it`s different to yours.......

My outlook on this would be:

If a rewire was being done, all s/o and wall switches (except kitchen) would be located between 450 and 1200mm.

If you were wiring a conservatory, which was attached to a house where the sockets were on the skirting, you`d install yours there, to match?????

I wouldn`t, I`m afraid.

My house - we`re doing it up 1 room at a time. Does that mean that I done have to lift any of the sockets, because they`ll be different heights to the ones that haven`t been done yet???

Partial rewire - would depend on too many variables, to give a definitive answer. But for a rewire - too damn right I`d be 450mm off FFL with my sockets.

 
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I would agree with kme on this it is better to make switches and sockets more accessable. Although if property is not to be redecorated throughout customer may not want everything moving to different positions. I always advise customers that it looks better to have accesories at building reg height because eventually this will be the normal height. You have to give customers the choice after all it is them that are paying you. I did a rewire last year with a two storey extension. this was done at building reg height customer said they preferred sockets and switches at that height. I like it two as there is a lot less bending down when wiring.

batty

 

Apache

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I too know AN answer, and it`s different to yours.......My outlook on this would be:

If a rewire was being done, all s/o and wall switches (except kitchen) would be located between 450 and 1200mm.

If you were wiring a conservatory, which was attached to a house where the sockets were on the skirting, you`d install yours there, to match?????

I wouldn`t, I`m afraid.

My house - we`re doing it up 1 room at a time. Does that mean that I done have to lift any of the sockets, because they`ll be different heights to the ones that haven`t been done yet???

Partial rewire - would depend on too many variables, to give a definitive answer. But for a rewire - too damn right I`d be 450mm off FFL with my sockets.
I would agree with kme on this it is better to make switches and sockets more accessable. Although if property is not to be redecorated throughout customer may not want everything moving to different positions. I always advise customers that it looks better to have accesories at building reg height because eventually this will be the normal height. You have to give customers the choice after all it is them that are paying you. I did a rewire last year with a two storey extension. this was done at building reg height customer said they preferred sockets and switches at that height. I like it two as there is a lot less bending down when wiring.batty
I can see it might be a 'better' thing to do but am I right you dont have to?

(so I am a bit right? :| )

 

jckent

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My understanding is.

Replacing an existing socket/outlet- it can stay the same.

New socket /outlet = 450-1200mm.

 

Theorysparky

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Batty is correct

to clarify.....a new extension can have the sockets at the same height as the rest of the house

but of course "Common sense prevails !!!!"

 

kme

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Batty is correctto clarify.....a new extension can have the sockets at the same height as the rest of the house

but of course "Common sense prevails !!!!"
I didn`t know that Theo:O:O:O

But I wouldn`t. How could you issue a building regs notification, when your work doesn`t comply with building regs??

I would specify 450mm min (in fact, its often the 1200mm for light switches, that customers have an issue with).

Useful info - but I wouldn`t be putting it into practice;\ ]:)

 

binky

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only new builds have to be at building reg height rewires don't.batty
I understand it that complete re-wires have to comply aswell, hence also requirement for smoke alarms. I also understand that BC (depending on the inspector) do allow a lower socket height than the 450mm in older properties, but as I haven't had any dealings with BC for a long time, I wouldn't want to be held to that, or risk having to move things up!!

 
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I understand it that complete re-wires have to comply aswell, hence also requirement for smoke alarms. I also understand that BC (depending on the inspector) do allow a lower socket height than the 450mm in older properties, but as I haven't had any dealings with BC for a long time, I wouldn't want to be held to that, or risk having to move things up!!
Building control do not get involved with rewires. But as i have said i advise customers to have sockets and switches at building reg height but as they are paying you it is up to them what height they have them fitted. New builds are different as they have to comply with building regs if you put sockets and switches at wrong height building inspector will not pass inspection.

batty

 

kme

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I understand it that complete re-wires have to comply aswell, hence also requirement for smoke alarms. I also understand that BC (depending on the inspector) do allow a lower socket height than the 450mm in older properties, but as I haven't had any dealings with BC for a long time, I wouldn't want to be held to that, or risk having to move things up!!
Sorry, Batty, but I`d have to agree with Binky here ( as I have already done - or maybe he agreed with me? duh - dunno! :) ) :^O

"building control do not get involved with re-wires"??? :eek:

If that were true, we wouldn`t have to issue "building reg compliance certificates" for them, would we????

From memory, those certs state that, to the best of your knowledge, your work complies with building regs. ?:|

"As the customer is paying you, it is up to them what height the sockets go"?? ?:|

So where do you draw the line? If that is your tenet, then surely they could demand a double socket beside the bath, or a smoke alarm in the garage, and you say "well, they`re paying me, so it`s up to them"? :eek:

If I`m doing a domestic rewire, the customer can spec. where they want sockets, as a linear distance along a wall (or, usually, make an "x" in pencil on the wall) - BUT they do not get offered a "range" of heights (other than 450-1200). :D

As I said earlier, there have hardly any complaints about sockets. They usually want wall switches about 1500mm, and can get peevish about it. If it`s a partial, or add 1 light & switch, then match existing heights by all means. :)

But, in my mind, to leave them there when doing full rewire is just laziness, as well as a contravention of part "M". X(

Think we`ll have to "agree to disagree" on this one m8. :)

KME

 

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Building control do not get involved with rewires. But as i have said i advise customers to have sockets and switches at building reg height but as they are paying you it is up to them what height they have them fitted. New builds are different as they have to comply with building regs if you put sockets and switches at wrong height building inspector will not pass inspection.batty
Concur with that M8.

If you have the luxury of a rewire where most of the accessory wiring can be pulled in though existing chanels.... or there are existing holes in stud walls...

It can be very tricky trying to force a customer to have to pay for additional plastering patching etc.. when it is possible to re-use existing positions.

ALSO.. As far as I remember .. the amended heights "450mm 1200mm"

only actually apply to Downstairs rooms..

and/or areas with wheelchair access.. cuz that was the key reason for the heights.. to assist persons with limited reach or access

to confirm.. NICEIC Pocket Guide 7. paragraph (3) says that

approved document M applies to 'New Dwellings'
i.e. Not rewires of Old Dwellings? ;)

I generally consider two type of rewire..

1) the inhabited / decorated rewire..

2) the just moved in gonna gut the property re-wire..

with 2) I would generally adjust heights to new standards..

but with 1) I only adjust height if it is feasible without serious redecorating costs...

[Customer has the final decsision... Or you don't get paid at the end! :p :D;)]

 

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