Temporary extension lead

[gordy71]

Went to a callout today to look at a commercial dishwasher that was not working, Turns out all it was was the breaker had tripped on the board and the chef thought it was on a different circuit. He also asked me to look at a big microwave oven that was pulling to much power for the ring that it was on. It was tripping the 30 amp breaker because there is loads of other stuff plugged in. Now he has asked me to knock up a temporary extension lead for him that can be taken to a socket that he believes to be on a different circuit (its about 5 metres away). The appliance is wired in 1.5mm flex at the mo but must be pulling close to 2.5kw because he showed me the extension lead that he used before and the socket end of the lead has melted and consequently damaged the microwave plug (this may be due to to a high resistance joint as the extension lead is old?). I plan to use 2.5mm heat resistant flex (to allow for voltage drop), and chop the existing plug off and join the 2 cables in a joint box. i explained to him that this would only be a temporary fix and i plan to run a separate radial circuit off one of the spare ways on the board. Does this sound reasonable or do you think the 2.5mm end of the lead will just start to heat up again where it will be plugged in? He needs it doing asap and dont want to let him down as it could be a good little contract.

I would also like to know what you guys do when attending jobs like this, where the appliances/ machinery etc needs to go straight back into action. Ideally i would have liked to have done an insulation test on the dishwasher to check there wasnt a latent fault there but as soon as i had found out what was wrong it had to go straight back on. The mcb must have tripped for a reason. The dishes were stacking up and it was the middle of their lunch service. I only managed to do a zs whilst the machine was working!

 

[Andy™]

if it was overload, then all the cable would have problems. if its just the end, then its a dodgy connection (happens all the time)

 

[steptoe]

How are you routing this lead would be my first question, never mind sizing. A working kitchen is a busy place.

 

[gordy71]

I would probably run some sticky back trunking around top of door way and along work top tiles for a couple of metres, I am not particularly happy about doing it to be honest because like you say there are 10 + chefs screaming about the place and i would rather do a proper job, but i want to help him out as i might get a load more work out of it. My other fear is that im pretty sure i will struggle to find an mcb to fit in the board when i come to running a new circuit for it and this will end up being a permanant solution. The mcbs/board look about 20-30 years old and the mcbs are all black with thin longish switches with the ratings printed in white, sorry i couldnt find the make.

 

[steptoe]

I would probably run some sticky back trunking around top of door way and along work top tiles for a couple of metres, I am not particularly happy about doing it to be honest because like you say there are 10 + chefs screaming about the place and i would rather do a proper job, but i want to help him out as i might get a load more work out of it. My other fear is that im pretty sure i will struggle to find an mcb to fit in the board when i come to running a new circuit for it and this will end up being a permanant solution. The mcbs/board look about 20-30 years old and the mcbs are all black with thin longish switches with the ratings printed in white, sorry i couldnt find the make.

dorman smith?

a pic would be good even, but it sounds like 20-30 yrs might even be optimistic.......

 

[gordy71]

dorman smith?a pic would be good even, but it sounds like 20-30 yrs might even be optimistic.......

Older than me then:^O Ok will arrange to do the extension lead then get some pics or try and sell him a board change, He is pretty clued up to be honest and its a michellin star restaurant so they should have the wedge to pay for it, He even said when i turned up that it was not in great condition.

 

[Ali]

Sounds to me like they are lucky to have you on their side. Lots of jobs seem to be like this; the customer is in dire need of the equipment and the electrician does their best to keep them going on the understanding that it's temporary and it will get sorted soon. I think it sounds like you are doing the right thing with the extention cable and they'll be in a much better situation when you've finished.

 

[gordy71]

What about rcd protection, there is none existing, needs to be really as the cable will be run near food preparation area. Or could i label it as dedicated socket for instructed persons? I would join the cable in ip rated box or commando socket. I dont want to put it on a plug in rcd as i want to keep joints to a minimum. Maybe see if the mcb holds up and put on rcd spur? There needs to be some investigative work really then redesign.

What about the question about attending emergency call out for stuff that needs to go straight back into service? Maybe im too keen, but i really cant afford to be turning work down at the minute!

 

[sellers]

don't forget don't do your temporary job too temporary, because it will still be there next time we see haylleys comet!

As for the em call out. I don't see the issue with switching the mcb straight back on if it has just tripped the once. If theres a fault or overload then it will trip again. Then advise the customer you can either arrange a time to investigate why it has tripped or it may happen again.

 

[Sidewinder]

gordy71,

Why do you want to put in rcd protection because it is in a food prep area?

As far as the emergency call out thing goes:

1. Ensure you have tht funds to do what you are thinking about!

2. Find somewhere to take your HGV1 test.

3. Find somewhere to train you up to take your HGV1 test.

4. Get Trained up.

5. Take & pass your HGV1 test.

6. If you fail return to 3.

7. Find your own Wagon with sleeping compartment, as you'll need it! Also find a 40' box trailer with tail lift.

8. Purchase and inusre.

9. Fit out trailer with stock and materials as required for the breakdowns, anything less than a 40' box will be too small.

10. Have a beer coz I'm taking the mickey.

HOWEVER, this is about the only way you'll EVER have enough stock with you!!!



All you can do is the best you can and do it safely, and leave the job safer than it was when you got there.

; )

 

[sellers]

even then you'll still be scrounging around in the 18wheeler for some 2BA's

 

[gordy71]

gordy71,Why do you want to put in rcd protection because it is in a food prep area?

Because of electric knives, liquids, etc, fair enough i can only give recomendations, then they have the choice:C Thanks guys, as you can tell im a bit of a worrier, not a great trait for a sparky. I often wonder why people think my old dear is my sister!

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

I would probably run some sticky back trunking around top of door way and along work top tiles for a couple of metres, I am not particularly happy about doing it to be honest because like you say there are 10 + chefs screaming about the place and i would rather do a proper job, but i want to help him out as i might get a load more work out of it. My other fear is that im pretty sure i will struggle to find an mcb to fit in the board when i come to running a new circuit for it and this will end up being a permanant solution. The mcbs/board look about 20-30 years old and the mcbs are all black with thin longish switches with the ratings printed in white, sorry i couldnt find the make.

Assume you wont get anymore work from it...

Assume other prospective customer will see this work and take its as a typical example of your normal work standards that your reputation will be built on!

As long as you are proud of your work and it all complies with current regs then you cant lose...

But be VERY VERY aware of going too cheep and too temporary..

cuz you set a benchmark for the standards and costs the customer will expect from you in future..

when it is harder to raise up standards if you start from a low level..

If the customer is any good they will want a proper job done anyway...

If you got customers only after cheepo quick fix they will very unlikely want you back for more expensive proper fix.

From your own admission this is a busy Kitchen..

do a full and proper risk assessment of whats needed to do a safe job for yourself and the customer...

Last thing you want is any electrical injuries to your customers staff due to your quick fix...

Saying you were promised other work don't stand up in court.

Tread cautiously and don't be over keen to get work at any cost.

:coffee

 

[Sidewinder]

gordy71,

An RCD is considered Additional Protection by the 17th.

Thus the fundemental circuit design and selection and erection of the installation must provide suitable protection and the instalation must be suitable for the external influences.

All bar a few exceptions.

Adding an RCD is not a substitute for poor design, selection & erection (see GN1), or lack of accounting for external influences.

It MAY be that the recommended route for the external influences you encounter will be an RCD, but it is NOT the be all and end all.

NOR is it a substiute for poor design and installation.

NOW BEFORE anyone gets at me I am NOT saying that you would design and install a poor instalation by choice.

I am merely pointing out the considerations.

 

[gordy71]

gordy71,An RCD is considered Additional Protection by the 17th.

Thus the fundemental circuit design and selection and erection of the installation must provide suitable protection and the instalation must be suitable for the external influences.

All bar a few exceptions.

Adding an RCD is not a substitute for poor design, selection & erection (see GN1), or lack of accounting for external influences.

It MAY be that the recommended route for the external influences you encounter will be an RCD, but it is NOT the be all and end all.

NOR is it a substiute for poor design and installation.

NOW BEFORE anyone gets at me I am NOT saying that you would design and install a poor instalation by choice.

I am merely pointing out the considerations.

I appreciate this sidewinder, and thanks for your opinion but the bottom line is that much of this installation is 20+ years old. Therefore the initial design of the installation is starting to not meet the requirements of a modern day kitchen. In an ideal world i would be ripping out the old board, installing a new one balancing the phases and installing a few more circuits. I am now treating this as a job that might become a permanant fix as special location pointed out, i might not get called again. The suggestion of an RCD is for my customers safety and my own peace of mind.