That garage supply thing again

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Noooooooooooooooooo, Not another 10 page thread?

]:)

:^O

 

kme

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http://www.iee.org/Publish/WireRegs/WiringMatters/Documents/Issue16/2005_16_autumn_wiring_matters_earthing_your_questions_answered.pdftry this link, it supports my understanding on the recent "Exported earth " thread that the supply to a garage may be TT'd due to the fact that it comes from a PME supply.

Scroll right down, its the bit showing supplies to caravan pitches
:eek: ? :|

Erm...... Just 2 points Nicky:

1... I don`t believe we were dealing with special locations. Caravan pitches are nothing to do the "other thread" (or a flippin garage). And, anyway:

2... I`m sure that my POV on that thread was that the PME earth was NOT exported to a garage/outbuilding; and that the "remote location" was in fact, a TT installation, with an earthing system independant of the main building!

Now I`m confused. I`m sure that you`re argument was that the earth COULD be exported????

 

SPECIAL LOCATION

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http://www.iee.org/Publish/WireRegs/WiringMatters/Documents/Issue16/2005_16_autumn_wiring_matters_earthing_your_questions_answered.pdftry this link, it supports my understanding on the recent "Exported earth " thread that the supply to a garage may be TT'd due to the fact that it comes from a PME supply.

Scroll right down, its the bit showing supplies to caravan pitches
Do I dare to comment on this thread????? ]:) ] :)

oh to hell with it!!

I can always run and hide in steptoes yard under that old mattress behind the fridge if it gets too rough!!

Good evening Nicky... nice article link. :) Hows work m8..?

1) No one actually disagreed with the concept that a remote garage could be TT'd in the relevant circumstances. (e.g. long distances from main property, exposed earthy metal work, 'PME'{TN-C-S} or TN-S)

2) The original post was questioning the concept of an "exported earth" and the various hazards associated with it..

Which is why we started considering the reasons why you don't......

a) have "exported earths" with simultaneously accessibly non-bonded earth potential conductors/metal work.

B) have small C.S.A. conductors between two different earth systems TT & TN-?.

3) I think you will find there were some dual concepts going through the length of the thread...

(the very long thread..).. which occasionally got lost due to the length! :(

4) Part of the problem was a unique concept of "Touch Voltage" put forwards where it is only measured between fault & MET....

Unfortunately this is not verified by NICEIC technical reference manual section V29-17.

Also confirmed on the thread "Touch Voltage" on the Q&A section of this forum....which I assume we all now agree with?

5) another part of the problem was a unique concept of "PFC prospective fault current" put forwards where it only equals 5 or 7 times the MCB rating and it does not involve a fault of negligible impedance.

Unfortunately again this is not verified by NICEIC technical reference manual section V29-17. or NICEIC pocket guide 15, or BS7671.

Also this is confirmed on the thread "Prospective Fault Current" on the Q&A section of this forum.....which again I assume we all now agree with?

So as said....

don't think anyone actually disagreed that PME with remote garage in the relevant circumstances would be TT'd.

As said nice earthing article Nicky.. which I am sure will be of some help to some of those still taking C&G's etc.. nothing like reinforcing the basics! ; \ :)

 

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all I am saying as i said in the previous thread, is that the SWA is disconnected at the garage due to it being a PME conductor from a TNC-S system. You never see any articles requesting you to do the above with a TNS system......It is always PME that is mentioned.

KME....Garage, Caravan, Metal Boat etc etc .......The same principals apply for danger, so it is relevant

 

steptoe

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all I am saying as i said in the previous thread, is that the SWA is disconnected at the garage due to it being a PME conductor from a TNC-S system. You never see any articles requesting you to do the above with a TNS system......It is always PME that is mentioned.KME....Garage, Caravan, Metal Boat etc etc .......The same principals apply for danger, so it is relevant
TNS and TNCS is totally different,

you have a TNCS/PME incomer,

and then it is changed to TNS (normally) within the dwelling,

but you still have a multiple earthing system on the incomer.

I am now getting fed up with this subject and some peoples inability to grasp the basics of earthing,

next we will have someone asking why we dont have our houses IT like they do on the boats.!

yes, most boats should be run on IT, so it makes your above point about TNCS on a boat pointless, as for changing it to TT,

well that I would like to see,

would low modulous silicon be your preferred method of sealing the spike?

 

Nicky Tesla

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Are you at it again toe-rag, with your " some peoples inability to grasp the basics of earthing " comment.

Again it is you numb nuts, that is wrong again. Look at the first paragraph on page 24 on my link. I dont need lessons on earthing systems from the likes of you. Carnt you ever answer anything without your snard remarks?.....And dont say you are being in character.

 

kme

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Are you at it again toe-rag, with your " some peoples inability to grasp the basics of earthing " comment.Again it is you numb nuts, that is wrong again. Look at the first paragraph on page 24 on my link. I dont need lessons on earthing systems from the likes of you. Carnt you ever answer anything without your snard remarks?.....And dont say you are being in character.
Do you think you could PLEASE calm the name-calling. It doesn`t help the situation.

I honestly believe that there is NEVER going to be amicable agreement on this subject.

KME:( :( :(

 

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I agree with nicky on this one steptoe does seem to have a personality problem I thought we left this at SF If steptoe cant wind he neck in with comments like that he should have a warning from admin and if he carries on get kicked from the site

 

Nicky Tesla

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I agree with nicky on this one steptoe does seem to have a personality problem I thought we left this at SF If steptoe cant wind he neck in with comments like that he should have a warning from admin and if he carries on get kicked from the site
thanks for the support mate

 

kme

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I agree with nicky on this one steptoe does seem to have a personality problem I thought we left this at SF If steptoe cant wind he neck in with comments like that he should have a warning from admin and if he carries on get kicked from the site
I do not know Mr. Steptoe; and have never had any dealings or conversation with him, other than on this forum.

He can have a tendancy to say EXACTLY what he thinks - please or offend. So can a lot of other people, both on & off forum. Come to think of it, so do I now & again.

In my opinion, having seen many of his posts, he has good days & bad days. (don`t we all)?

I believe he was getting a little short after the large number of postings recently, arguing over the same ground every time. I can sympathise with that; I`ve felt it myself. I have a little more diplomacy (good thing? bad thing?) but that doesn`t make anyone better, or worse.

As I said earlier, the name calling is nonsense. That was part of the issue in another forum. I would respectfully request that, if you want to name call, and get into slanging matches with another member, P.M. them. If they get fed up before you, they`ll just put you on the "ignore" list. No big issue.

Keep it light. (I`se ascared of the dark massa boss) :D

n.b. To all persons mentioned or inferred within this post. I`m NOT having a go at you, OK???

 

steptoe

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A: I didnt call anybody any names,

B; my point was that the poster I quoted obviously didnt understand the principles of earthing otherwise they would have known that boats have a whole different earthing arrangement to most of what is dealt with both through NICEIC, the BS regs or a general electricians knowledge,

how many of you guys have actually worked on a 230v live earth system.?

you reckon when a battleship has a fault that a fuse blows and the guns stop firing?

a little light comes on to indicate the plate has just gone live but everything still works, so i suppose it is a little like a TNC system then, except it never gets

Separated.

as for NT not requiring lessons from earthing from the likes of me(whatever that means),

I couldnt agree more,

he needs them from a saint, cos god knows who else would have the patience.

I didnt come here to hammer down peoples throats, but merely to give advice and (my own) opinion when I think it may be useful and may help prevent a dangerous occurence,

perhaps this is why REG16 needs to be adhered to more often and not the stoopid BS7671comic or NICEIC that some people seem to hold as the bible and god.

 

kme

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A: I didnt call anybody any names,B; my point was that the poster I quoted obviously didnt understand the principles of earthing otherwise they would have known that boats have a whole different earthing arrangement to most of what is dealt with both through NICEIC, the BS regs or a general electricians knowledge,

how many of you guys have actually worked on a 230v live earth system.?

you reckon when a battleship has a fault that a fuse blows and the guns stop firing?

a little light comes on to indicate the plate has just gone live but everything still works, so i suppose it is a little like a TNC system then, except it never gets

Separated.

as for NT not requiring lessons from earthing from the likes of me(whatever that means),

I couldnt agree more,

he needs them from a saint, cos god knows who else would have the patience.

I didnt come here to hammer down peoples throats, but merely to give advice and (my own) opinion when I think it may be useful and may help prevent a dangerous occurence,

perhaps this is why REG16 needs to be adhered to more often and not the stoopid BS7671comic or NICEIC that some people seem to hold as the bible and god.
A... I know m8.

B... I haven`t worked 230 earth; and wouldn`t profess to having the first clue my friend. I`d defer to you, bud, because that`s (one of) your areas of excellence.

I agree with your point r.e. EAWR; however todays teaching (and a number of the members / readers are in training / apprentice) is based around "7671 says this" etc.

 

Nicky Tesla

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Im sure toe-rag , if you went into Gordon Ramseys kitchen and commented, "I think that some people cannot grasp the basics of cooking" that Gordon would consider that as an insult and have a few choice words to say back to you ....but i bet you would still reply "I didn't insult anybody" while you very picking yourself up off the floor outside the restaurant.

Anyway if anybody actually wants to learn something about this subject, look at the TNC-S/TT thread on the IEE forum thats on at the moment, some great reply s, even boats mooring supplies gets mentioned, funny that cos on this forum they dont exist unless they are IT.

Sorry about mentioning the IEE forum Wizzo, but we need to get to the bottom of this subject

 

steptoe

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Im sure toe-rag , if you went into Gordon Ramseys kitchen and commented, "I think that some people cannot grasp the basics of cooking" that Gordon would consider that as an insult and have a few choice words to say back to you ....but i bet you would still reply "I didn't insult anybody" while you very picking yourself up off the floor outside the restaurant.Anyway if anybody actually wants to learn something about this subject, look at the TNC-S/TT thread on the IEE forum thats on at the moment, some great reply s, even boats mooring supplies gets mentioned, funny that cos on this forum they dont exist unless they are IT.

Sorry about mentioning the IEE forum Wizzo, but we need to get to the bottom of this subject
boats mooring and boat supplies are a totally different subject Nicky,

this is exactly the point I am trying to get across to you, and others.

when the difference in supply parameters change, then so do the requirements for the earthing arrangements.

isn't it also funny that the IEE is a purely UK based organisation, and I'll also bet(I wont visit it) that they also spout the benefits of PME earthing systems too.! :^O :^O:^O:^O

oh how I laugh when it comes to UK middle ages arguments on modern electrical systems. (NOT having at go at you NT, just the IEE's tunnel vision)

 

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Afternoon Steptoe.......The IEE thread actually says that TT, is the safer when used with an RCD

 
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