Apologies for dragging up this very old thread.
i came across it while looking at third party certification and would like to chime in.
i appreciate that I may get abuse / criticism for this.
i would also like to say I acknowledge the arguments regarding liability, and the possibility of loss of work and don’t entirely disagree.
but having being in what I consider a difficult situation presently, I think that the way things are... with building control not necessarily charging high fees because I know it’s a form or discouragement so people use registered electricians... but rather place so many obstacles in the way and make it so difficult, one initially didn’t even offer to sign off work until I quoted the price listed on their website... then they said that price on their website was plus testing so would be more, then said they want detailed wiring diagrams.... and with many qualified and registered electricians unable to sign off 3rd party. With wiring diagrams even most electricians don’t draw up wiring diagrams for every single job and the install has to be inspected anyway so it’s nothing more than a barrier.
it doesn’t make things necessarily safer, nor force people to use qualified and registered people which is what NICEIC article suggests many registered electricians believe, think it quoted 80% something. Which is what’s I thought the goal of all this regulation is? Safety!
if anything, it forces people to do things illegally.
Not going to say it makes it more dangerous because while many will disagree and have some valid arguments why... anybody adamant enough to do things properly and safely will first buy a copy of the current regs, 18th edition and read and study it, as would they buy a calibrated test meter and learn the various tests and if unsure ask questions, and talk to people, anybody not adamant enough to do things safely and properly will continue to do so regardless of what the regs and law says in a dangerous manner as they have always done, and the people using qualified professionals for most part will still be the people who can afford to, and don’t have the first clue at all or feel they aren’t competent enough, I say feel rather than think as many think they are, possibly myself included.
But what it does do is force people to have electrical installations which haven’t been inspected, and don’t have the EIC required for part P and may likely become an issue if a property is sold which really defeats the object of arguing for a safer environment because presently the way things are it’s ringfenced and anybody on the outside can’t get anything signed off and thus continue to do dangerous work which hasn’t improved anything despite the argument it’s all in the name of safety... while the certification bodies use it as a cash cow which even people in the trade acknowledge to be the case for most part.
whatever way you look at it, an inspected and signed off circuit is going to be better than an Un-inspected one.
and chances are, the people who are doing it DIY regardless of whether they can or can’t get it signed off are still unlikely to get an electrician unless something goes wrong or they get stuck... it in no way for most part means somebody turns around and says well I can’t sign it off so I’m going to get somebody in.... especially if they are simply unable to afford to pay somebody... which many aren’t which is why they DIY in the first place and this is often overlooked and it’s said well if you can’t afford it then don’t do it... however as in my case life is not always that simple or clear cut at times... and if you need electric down in your garage or shed, while this is a case of can’t afford no need to do for most part many won’t take that stance and still go ahead, maybe they want to stick a freezer in their shed or garage as a matter of necessity because they have a growing family and running out of space in their kitchen freezer or something so they can buy more food for their kids which ok to a professional may not seem like a valid reason but to the homeowner it may seem like a desperate situation. All a matter of perspective because if that person is struggling financially and need a means of storing more food for their family they won’t let the fact they can’t afford an electrician stand in the way.
i agree that some will argue that it devalues their skill set and qualifications, and I’m also the first to acknowledge that there is more to electrics than running cables. So not in any way trying to deliberately imply you aren’t highly skilled or qualified people that should justly be charging what you do as you are right to.
However on the the other hand, that is probably more relevant in commercial settings with 3 phase and significantly larger circuits and runs which have a lot more regs attached to them.
in a domestic setting, for the most part without trying to sound to blazen and appreciate that I may get criticism as I do understand it’s not as simple as I make out and it sounds like I’ve dumbed it down... but effectively, for most domestic electrics in terms of regs one install is pretty similar to the next and all pretty standard day in day out stuff.
I know they say insulation and clipping wires effects cable sizes because you have to derate them to factor in the conditions the cable is installed in... but realistically how often is a lighting circuit not 1.5mm and how often is a ring not 2.5mm? Shower, cooker, hob etc stick 10mm in and for some it maybe overkill but it’s still acceptable.
aside from that, know the safe zones, know the socket and switch heights know how cable should be secured and supported, grommets in back boxes, capping on cables and that’s pretty much standard stuff on any install in a domestic standard family sized house or bungalow.
and this is a problem I am personally experiencing , I appreciate I’m not going to get much sympathy and as above be told can’t afford then don’t do... which I have been told.
but due to the situation I’m in, while I would love to pay a professional, would certainly make my life easier, due to circumstances which was forced upon me which I did not ask for.
the situation I’m in; is what it is... and I’ve been told already should just sell like it’s so easy and ends all the problems.
but it’s not that clear cut and while I like to go on and try and give perspective why I was already told once in one place that people don’t want to or need to know the back story and how it changes nothing.
it is what’s it is.
i am a tradesman, but not a registered electrician, to get out of this situation I need to rewire multiple properties which previously belonged to a family member who suddenly and unexpectedly passed away and due to the situation I’m in... money is extremely tight and it will either make or break the situation. It’s not a case of, no money to pay somebody can’t do, because if I don’t get it done so I can either rent or sell.. HMRC will be chasing for inheritance tax instalment at end of July and aren’t going to accept me saying, you will have to wait months until I have the money.
im trying to do things properly and legally, I’m willing to spend on a calibrated meter and anything associated to use it and get the test results required. I’m willing to study the 18th edition regs, even take an 18th edition exam if need be... get it inspected and signed off with paperwork because on multiple properties it’s still cheaper for me to do all the manual work of pulling floorboards, chasing walls and sinking boxes, running cables as there is no labour for me to do it. Than paying somebody to do it as part of a job and that’s the only way I can get it done within the budget constraints of what small amount of money I am able to borrow in order to get the property sold for market value / rented.
so I’m not trying to do a DIY bodge job of it, I’m trying to do things properly and legally and to regs, I’m just constrained by a budget which has no allowance to pay somebody to do complete job even if I wanted to, not intended as an insult to anybody.
but due to NICEIC and Elecsa rules, despite Part P allowing 3rd party notification I can’t get anybody to inspect and test even if I leave every inch of cable visible for inspection and do everything as per regs.
and I’m struggling to get building control also to co-operate and sign it off.
so as above, anybody in my position or similar? Where does that leave us? This is a case of necessity although I know that will be a matter of debatable opinion.
but in all likelihood it will force me nearer to the route of just getting on and doing it with or without the paperwork, it won’t mean being able to just get somebody in to do the lot and I can’t leave it as it is now which in turn may cause me other problems later on.
There needs to be a way of getting 3rd party installations signed off easier if they are going to keep arguing it’s for safety.,
