Training required to rewire home

[ajrossington]

Hi, all. We've just moved into an old home. We've noticed something keeps tripping one of the mains rings and I've been replacing very corroded (on the inside) sockets. It's clear that the wiring has been added to at different points (mixture of old and new wiring colors) as well as a lot of sockets that aren't flush with the walls. If replacing all the sockets doesn't remedy the trip then we'll get a sparky in.

In a year or so, I'd like to train to a sufficient level to safely rewire the house, chasing everything into walls, along with ethernet and AV cabling. The low voltage stuff is fine and I've done it loads (my day job is networks & security these days but I've come from electronics and computing) but I'd like to make sure I can (not necessarily in this order):

Replace the old black and red wiring thoughout;

Replace all sockets with flush / back boxed units;

Replace lighting as there seems to be a different fitting in each room;

I don't wish to work anyone else's home. I do want to do it myself so I can do it to my schedule. I do want to be able to sell the house in the future.

So, can someone please recommend the appropriate courses / certification level to comfortably achieve the above? Can qualified electricians "sign off" their own work?

I know experience makes someone great at something, but I'm not interested in this as a career, I just want to do a good, safe job in my own home and know that in time when we sell, I won't have shot myself in the foot by doing the work myself.

Many thanks in advance.

 

[Murdoch]

Where are you based?

no single training course would provide enough information IMHO, to safely rewire a house .......

 

[ajrossington]

Where are you based?

Camborne, Cornwall

no single training course would provide enough information IMHO, to safely rewire a house .......

That's cool, I get that there'll be fundamentals, intermediate, etc - similar to how I've built up to what I do for work now. I wouldn't mind spending time and money doing several courses of a few weeks if that's what it took. 

I'm anticipating needing to doing several certs to be safe - just need to know which ones are appropriate so that I can manage my expectations in terms of time and cost.

Thanks for your help btw.

 

[Murdoch]

Cost for a 5 week course, about £6k ...... But almost no hands on experience...

 

[pewter]

If you don't want to do it professionally, it's only for your house. I think training to do it would be a waste of time and money. 

You could possibly just pay someone to do it for the cost of your training course.  

Factor in lost time off work you would have for doing your work and training, real costs for you to train and do your own work could cost you 2-3 times what it would cost if you just payed someone to do it properly. 

If you really do want to get involved, the best value could be to pay someone to do it and you Labour for them.

 

[ajrossington]

Thanks both of you. Big thing is minimising disruption to family while it's being done. Sorry if this is a piece of string question but if someone were to ask you to complete a rewire in your area, what sort of numbers (cost and time) should I expect? We're talking two stories, kitchen with the usual fittings, two living rooms to have four roughly equal space double sockets.6 bedrooms with maybe 3 doubles per room. Ceilings removed and walls pre-chased wherever the sparky requested. Needs a new consumer unit, this one's yellow.

I'm not actually that fussed about being involved, I'd just like to be able to say to the wife and kids "it's going to be horrible for n days, then we'll get a plasterer in and decorate".

 

[Murdoch]

Impossible to say how long or how much without a spec ..... But about £50 per point  minimum ....based on the basics and white fittings .... And nothing fancy .... Plus making good, decorating etc ....

 

[ajrossington]

Fair do's - many thanks for your time. I'll grab a sparky and see how tightly the rewire can be managed time wise and run the other cabling at a similar time.

Thanks again,

Alan

 

[Adrian]

Ajrossington I'm actually only a few miles away from you .If I was you I would ask around for free work experience. My last apprentice was a full time student and came to me with no experience and after a week working with me he said that he had learnt more in a week with me than he learnt in a whole year at college.

 

[ajrossington]

Adrian, I'll DM you

 

[pewter]

My last re wire in a 4 bed house that was stripped out and empty, 

i priced at £4K labour £2k materials

it ended up costing £6.5k labour and over £2.5k materials (prob a lot more as customer was buying materials)

rewiring an ocupied house is expensive, and a very bad experience for the electrician and occupants. Trying to do it all at once is hell. 

My advice when im asked this by customers is, 

change the consumer unit £400ish

then do room by room. Empty room. Rip out, rewire, plaster, decorate, 2nd fix electric. 

Rough cost for each bed room £500-800. 

 

[ajrossington]

rewiring an ocupied house is expensive, and a very bad experience for the electrician and occupants. Trying to do it all at once is hell. 

then do room by room. Empty room. Rip out, rewire, plaster, decorate, 2nd fix electric. 

Sound advice, I'll go with this.

Rough cost for each room £500-800. 

Seems reasonable given the peace of mind.

 

[Doc Hudson]

So, can someone please recommend the appropriate courses / certification level to comfortably achieve the above? Can qualified electricians "sign off" their own work?

Just to answer you point about signing off your work. There are two requirements for domestic rewires, (a) the electrical certificate showing compliance with BS7671 wiring regulations and (b) the Part-p building regulations compliance certificate.  

The electrical certificate will need be as per the model forms in BS7671 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Requirements-Electrical-Installations-Wiring-Regulations/dp/1849197695/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1507329342&sr=8-2&keywords=bs7671+17th+edition+amendment+3   You would need electrical test meters suitable to read Earth loop impedance, Low resistance continuity, Insulation resistance, RCD tripping times, to be able to complete all aspects of the electrical certificate.  Wiring regs book is approx. £80,  Multi function test meter typically anywhere from £500 to £1000+ You will need to be able to identify the suppliers earthing arrangements to your property as this could define some limitations around the types of protection used at the fuse box due to higher earth loop impedance values on the final circuits. 

For the building regulations compliance, if you wish to do this yourself you would need to be a member of one of the approved contractors bodies, with samples of your work to show them as part of your assessment for membership. you would also need public liability insurance, calibrated test meters, copies of all relevant BS7671 documents and pay the annual membership fee.  An example of one of the trade bodies membership criteria can be found here http://www.niceic.com/join-us/part-p-domestic-installer-scheme (there are other trade bodies available).

The nuts and bolts bits about how you physically fix and connect your cables and accessories is a very minor part of an electricians responsibilities and duties. For your own curiosity and interest I would suggest you have a look at a copy of BS761 in your local library and a copy of Approved document P relating to the building regulations. These are the things that should be complied with if you wish to have a safe installation that is correctly tested and certified. So to be able to sign off you own work it is another expensive path that probably would not be a very good investment for your option.

Doc H.

 

[Andy™]

you could do it room by room, however you also need to plan well in advance of how you are going to do it. i.e when you do an upstairs room you also need to wire the lights of the room below you. plan to get all wiring from each room into the hallway to then go to the next room etc. takes a bit longer and would cost a bit more, but if you are planning on doing up the entire house whilst living there it may be the better option

 

[ProDave]

I rewired a previous house room by room as I lived in it. For well over a year I had two radial circuits for sockets before the finally met up and became a ring when the last room was done.

 

[Murdoch]

I avoid lived in rewires like the plague...

 

[ajrossington]

Just to answer you point about signing off your work. There are two requirements for domestic rewires, (a) the electrical certificate showing compliance with BS7671 wiring regulations and (b) the Part-p building regulations compliance certificate.  

The electrical certificate will need be as per the model forms in BS7671 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Requirements-Electrical-Installations-Wiring-Regulations/dp/1849197695/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1507329342&sr=8-2&keywords=bs7671+17th+edition+amendment+3   You would need electrical test meters suitable to read Earth loop impedance, Low resistance continuity, Insulation resistance, RCD tripping times, to be able to complete all aspects of the electrical certificate.  Wiring regs book is approx. £80,  Multi function test meter typically anywhere from £500 to £1000+ You will need to be able to identify the suppliers earthing arrangements to your property as this could define some limitations around the types of protection used at the fuse box due to higher earth loop impedance values on the final circuits. 

For the building regulations compliance, if you wish to do this yourself you would need to be a member of one of the approved contractors bodies, with samples of your work to show them as part of your assessment for membership. you would also need public liability insurance, calibrated test meters, copies of all relevant BS7671 documents and pay the annual membership fee.  An example of one of the trade bodies membership criteria can be found here http://www.niceic.com/join-us/part-p-domestic-installer-scheme (there are other trade bodies available).

The nuts and bolts bits about how you physically fix and connect your cables and accessories is a very minor part of an electricians responsibilities and duties. For your own curiosity and interest I would suggest you have a look at a copy of BS761 in your local library and a copy of Approved document P relating to the building regulations. These are the things that should be complied with if you wish to have a safe installation that is correctly tested and certified. So to be able to sign off you own work it is another expensive path that probably would not be a very good investment for your option.

Doc H.

Thanks for this

you could do it room by room, however you also need to plan well in advance of how you are going to do it. i.e when you do an upstairs room you also need to wire the lights of the room below you. plan to get all wiring from each room into the hallway to then go to the next room etc. takes a bit longer and would cost a bit more, but if you are planning on doing up the entire house whilst living there it may be the better option

Perfect, thanks

I avoid lived in rewires like the plague...

We have a similar thing in networking, rewiring entire business networks. "Do it when you want but don't disconnect anyone, ever"

 

[phil d]

I avoid lived in rewires like the plague...

Some years ago I was asked to quote for a rewire, friend of a friend job, it turned into a nightmare!

It was a 3 bed bungalow, live in, at the time the going rate was about £1000, for an average job of that size, it should have been fairly easy, all the cables coming down from the loft, however the loft was chock full of all sorts.

I had a look around, made a list and told the lady I'd come back to her in a couple of days with a price, however she asked if I could give her a price there and then, as she was anxious to get on with the job. I said I'd see what I could do and went and sat in my van, I worked out a price and gave it to her, she accepted immediately, most unusual, we agreed a start date, and I made it clear to her that the loft would need to be empty, she assured me it would be, and the 2 weeks to the start would give them plenty of time to do this.

I arrived on the first day, the loft was still full, only a small area had been cleared, she made her excuses, assured me it would be done for the following morning, and asked if there was anything I could do, so I spent day 1 doing all the chasing.

Day 2 arrived, the loft was still full, "my husband reckons you can move stuff around as you go" she told me. We had a rather heated discussion about this and I picked up my gear and walked out, it wasn't happening!

She threw a strop so I drove off, the day after she rang to inform me she was suing me for breach of contract! try it, I told her she'd no chance, it was them who'd breached by not clearing the loft, I'd bought materials, chased out walls, I was the one who'd lost out. If anyone was doing the suing, it should be me, well she rang a couple more times making threats, I told her if she'd anything to say she'd better say it through a solicitor, otherwise she'd be hearing from mine!

I think she'd been trying it on from the beginning, she was very quick to accept the quote, and she's the only person who's ever wanted a price there and then, a lot want a ball park figure, but very few insist on a firm price while you are on a first visit.

I wondered later if they'd had others walk away from it due to the state of the loft, and thought she'd try it on with me, these days I avoid domestic work like the plague, and a live in rewire? thanks, but no thanks!