What tests at garage CU

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kung

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Hi all

Just about to replace/upgrade garage cu for part of my NICEIC assessment what i just need to know is where do i do the tests eg what tests do i do at house cu and what tests do i do at garage cu for the EIC ?

Garage is 10ft away from house supplies from 20A mcb.

Regards

Kung.

 
Hi allJust about to replace/upgrade garage cu for part of my NICEIC assessment what i just need to know is where do i do the tests eg what tests do i do at house cu and what tests do i do at garage cu for the EIC ?

Garage is 10ft away from house supplies from 20A mcb.

Regards

Kung.
Basically your normal tests e.g. R1+R2, Zs, InsRes, Polarity etc.. relate to a final circuit or distribution circuit that has its own overload protection device, (circuit breaker), eg. BS3036 / BS1361 / BSEN60898 / BS61009 etc..

So if the circuit breaker is part of the Garage CU then thats the point where that final circuits tests are done from.

The bit from the house to the garage CU would be a Distribution circuit (i.e. supplying a distribution board or CU, as opposed to a final circuit). which has its own overload protection somewhere on the house CU.

so the Distribution circuit ending at the garage CU, would be tested back to the house CU 20A MCB.

All of the individual circuits need their own full set of tests done! ;)

 
so basically is it ze at house and zdb at garage where ze is on scedule of tests and is it 1X EIC

2X SOT 1 for house 1 for garage and mark as house cu DB 1 garage cu DB 2 ?

Regards

Kung.

 
so basically is it ze at house and zdb at garage where ze is on scedule of tests and is it 1X EIC2X SOT 1 for house 1 for garage and mark as house cu DB 1 garage cu DB 2 ?

Regards

Kung.
Hello Kung...

TBH If for example there were only 2 circuits at garage CU

and say 10 circuits at house CU

As an NICEIC cert has around 20 lines on their SOT I would pop them all on one SOT with a couple of blank line spaces to separate the two CU's

BUT

if based on the 'model SOT' on page 341 of 'Big red' which only has 12 circuit lines, then YES I would use 2 x SOT! ;)

HTH SL

Guiness DrinkGuiness Drink

 
Hi again sorry to sound daft but have i got this right ?

do ze/pfc,pssc at house cu then R1+R2,IR,zs at house cu garage circuit only with garage cu discon so just testing circuit supply cable and put the test results on S.O.T

Then do exactly the same tests for just the garage cu and out going circuits ie raidal for sockets radial for lights and thats it ? then put all this info on 2nd S.O.T ?

Sorry if i seem silly but its for NICEIC assessment and wouldnt want to fail because certs were filled out incorrect !

If it was the main house cu id be ok but that one doesnt need changing and if i done that one and passed then was asked to say run power to a garage for some person id have to know what tests to do where and certs filled out.

Regards

Kung.

 
Hi again sorry to sound daft but have i got this right ?It's been said before it's NOT daft to ask a question about something you don't understand....

IHMO that's sensible, wise & using your common sense to ensure you learn more.

The daft person is the one who doesn't ask & then messes things up!

do ze/pfc,pssc at house cu then R1+R2,IR,zs at house cu garage circuit only with garage cu discon so just testing circuit supply cable and put the test results on S.O.T

In essence disconnecting the garage CU from the end of the distribution cable just means "turn off the CU isolator switch"

Then do exactly the same tests for just the garage cu and out going circuits ie raidal for sockets radial for lights and thats it ? then put all this info on 2nd S.O.T ?

Yes just treat the garage CU & its circuits as a self contained installation.

In this type of case it is convention to describe the 'Ze' figure as 'Zdb'

although Zdb is not a formal definition within BS7671! :)

Sorry if i seem silly but its for NICEIC assessment and wouldnt want to fail because certs were filled out incorrect !

If it was the main house cu id be ok but that one doesnt need changing and if i done that one and passed then was asked to say run power to a garage for some person id have to know what tests to do where and certs filled out.

Regards

Kung.
Thats sound about right to me;)

Good luck with your assessment... and DON'T PANIC AFAIK all of the Part P scheme assessors are helpful & friendly and are not there to belittle you. ;)

Guiness Drink

 
Thank you very much again as usual SPECIAL LOCATION you have been very informative and extremely helpfull in your easy to understand/follow replies.

Kind Regards

Kung.Applaud Smiley

 
Hi All

Just been told that one guy for his assessment rewired his garage but was told as the garage was not attached to his house the only thing needing notifying was the supply cable and anything inside the garage isnt so cant be used for assessment ! im confused now as i would have thought like the garage cu everything is notifiable and good for assessment as special location as outside the main house does this mean i wont be able to use a replacement garage cu for assessment and how does testing work ? as if non notifiable surely the garage cu etc dont go on a minor cert as still a cu !

Thanks

Kung.

With all my questions hope my keyboard dont run out of ink !

 
Hi AllJust been told that one guy for his assessment rewired his garage but was told as the garage was not attached to his house the only thing needing notifying was the supply cable and anything inside the garage isnt so cant be used for assessment ! im confused now as i would have thought like the garage cu everything is notifiable and good for assessment as special location as outside the main house does this mean i wont be able to use a replacement garage cu for assessment and how does testing work ? as if non notifiable surely the garage cu etc dont go on a minor cert as still a cu !

ThanksKung.

With all my questions hope my keyboard dont run out of ink !
Erm.... Rewiring a garage..

Doesn't that constitute "New circuits back to consumer unit"?

as in paragraph a, Additional notes, page 8, Approved document P.

Replacing a consumer unit, (whether in a garage/hall/landing/pantry/bedroom/porch etc.. etc.. ) is still "Replacing a consumer unit"

when does a consumer unit change its purpose due to the location it has been installed in?

Thus doesn't that constitute "Consumer units replacement"?

as in paragraph c, Additional notes, page 8, Approved document P.

Which are actually BOTH notifiable work irrespective of location.

Whether a job is notifiable or not is NOTHING to do with what type of electrical certificate is issued. Remember the wiring regs and appropriate type of certificate were in existence and normal everyday use well before Part-P notification ever came into existence.

ALSO... AFAIK many of the various scheme providers, e.g. NICEIC, ECA, BSI et al were also in existence well before Part-P was introduced..

Are you not being tested & checked to verify your understanding and compliance with the current issue of wiring regulations BS7671?.

So any substantial bit of electrical work involving all of the main testing procedures and the completion of a full EIC IMHO should be more than adequate to allow someone to asses your competence of BS7671.

THEN!!!

by virtue of the fact that your work complies with BS7671, it will comply with Building regs part P, providing you have taken an appropriate notification channel. As it says in section 0.2 page 7 App Doc-P... A way to satisfy fundamental principals would be to follow technical rules described in the body of BS7671.

ALL of the assessments I have had, involve my assessor testing and checking me & my work for compliance with the Regs BS7671!!!

I have never been asked to prove that a particular job we are looking at has actually been notified..

(They did have a general list of all of my past 12mnth notifications, & as long as there are a reasonable number in proportion to my copies of electrical certs then no problems or questions asked.)

Who are you looking at joining Kung?

Does their requirements specifically say "a notifiable job?"

Give them a call to verify what they want? :|

AND.. anyway...

some guidance the NICEIC give, (or certainly gave) about whether a job needs notifying is.. "If in doubt notify the job anyway!"

my keyboards gonna run out of ink AND keys!!!! :( :_| :_|Blushing

:) :coat

 
Thats why he is SPECIAL :^O :^O:^O:D
Oh eck GH.. your starting to sound like me mum!Blushing:p

just to finish correcting the sentence that you started..

:|

Thats why "he is SPECIAL" because he couldn't think of a better more original user name..

unlike most of the other guys and gals on this here forum! :eek: :^O

and ended up with a chapter title heading from the big regs book!!! :_| :_|

:eek: :coat

Me thinks I may go and nick Apaches name & avatar tonight when he's gone to bed!! ; \ ]:)

 
I would like to add futher to Special Locations post above.

I would never rely on hearsay about anything.

You can talk to your scheme provider and ask them if the jobs you have lined up for assesment are acceptable to them.

They will give you all the guidance you may need in order to save you money and the assessors time.

 
I would like to add futher to Special Locations post above.I would never rely on hearsay about anything.

You can talk to your scheme provider and ask them if the jobs you have lined up for assesment are acceptable to them.

They will give you all the guidance you may need in order to save you money and the assessors time.
Absolutely!

At the end of the day..

YOU are their customer... they want your business ie. membership;)

so they are, in my experience, helpful.

As long as you are not doing something stoopid like cancelling an appointment the day before! X(

give em notice keep em informed, ask em any questions! ;)

 
Thanks guys !

Onece ive done 1xmajor/1xminor i will be applying for assessment from NICEIC for domestic installers status.

Regards

Kung.

 
Hi allJust about to replace/upgrade garage cu for part of my NICEIC assessment what i just need to know is where do i do the tests eg what tests do i do at house cu and what tests do i do at garage cu for the EIC ?

Garage is 10ft away from house supplies from 20A mcb.

Regards

Kung.
Just one point worth noting on this job you have lined up.

What are the earthing arrangements at the house?

If its a PME TNC-S you will have to install an earth rod so you do not export an earth.

You must be able to show the assessor that you grasp the fundementals of testing earth rods, these tests are shown in guidance note 3.

Have you seen my post for assesments

http://www.talk.electricianforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=3668

That should give you some ideas and above all do not panick.

We all get nervous:^O

 
Just one point worth noting on this job you have lined up.What are the earthing arrangements at the house?

If its a PME TNC-S you will have to install an earth rod so you do not export an earth.

You must be able to show the assessor that you grasp the fundementals of testing earth rods, these tests are shown in guidance note 3.

Have you seen my post for assesments

http://www.talk.electricianforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=3668

That should give you some ideas and above all do not panick.

We all get nervous:^O
Sorry for the delay ! spoke to NICEIC and they say they wont exept the garage cu change etc for assessment dont know why but thats their take ! changing my main house cu now so that should keep them happy then put in a socket in upstairs hall for minor at me mums ! will give NICEIC a call next week for assessment booking after got completion cert from LABC Wokingham bless em times ive changed notifiable job due to errors by them and they still insist after completion they want a copy of the cert to believe it or not BS7671 well thats ok BUT they want it to 2001 ! lol told them about 6 times now NO thats 16th ed its NOW BS7671 2008 17th ed ! and still the notice comes saying BS7671 2001 ! Bless em. could have rewired me house in some good old red/black !

 
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