What would you do in my situation...

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Robbo

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Firstly, hi all ive just gained access to this forum. Not sure if this is the right forum to post this but it is more a professional query than one for the general posting public so I hope I might get a better response here.

Ive recently been put in touch with a local businessman through a builder I do alot of work for. This bloke is a millionaire with alot of properties and is in the process of retiring and handing his business onto his two sons. Between the three of them they like to dabble in the property development game. Buying, doing up, and then selling or renting houses.

Anyway the guy only recenty discovered that he should have electrical safety certificates on all the properties he is renting as well as planning to sell. (Thats a Periodic Inspection Report to you and I).

First job I did for him last week was a property that was empty, in between tenants. I carried out the inspection and testing procedure to discover that...

1. The distribution board had holes around it knocked out big enough for fingers to be pushed in.

2. The RCD protecting all circuits did not trip at x1 or x5 nor when the test button was pressed.

3. Busbar cover missing.

All code 1s I think you'll agree so naturally I told him to be able to "pass" the installation the consumer unit would need to be changed. There were a few minor non compliances too but nothing unordinary for an installation of this age.

Luvly jubbly a little earner on top of the report. But he said that his electrician who hes used for years (who cant sign off work) would be back there the following week and he'd get him to change the distribution board.

Anyway returned the following week for an hour or two. Completed the tests etc job done.

Got another one to do for him this week. Similar thing. Unoccupied property. This one is going to be sold. The estate agent or insurance company or someone are demanding an "electrical safety certificate" is written out.

Im going there Friday to have a look and carry out the PIR. "Dont think you'll have any problem with this one" he told me. "Its just been rewired".

Which brings me to my point. Obviously I want to get along with this guy. There is clearly going to be a run of work with him as between him and his sons they have a good number of houses that need PIRs carried out, eventually = plenty of work.

However I am f**ked if I im going to letsome unqualified spark get paid around

 

Robbo

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Something of interest that just came back to me was that on the first job I did another problem I discovered was Ze on the earth rod (TT) was >2000 ohm.

However PME was installed at the property at some time just not connected from the cut out to the distribution board. There was a PME sticker displayed and readings taken showed 0.24 ohms. So I explained to the owner that when his spark comes back to fit the new board he would need to connect that up using 16mm earth.

He said to me "Yeah he said I might need a new rod or something". I showed him what would need doing and he said "and he would know how to do that would he?". I replied "Well yes if hes an electrician he would". In the end it was left for me to do.

 

M107

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Bubble them to BCO & your scheme operator on the quiet (deny all knowledge).

These type of blokes need sorting especialy as it costs us

 

steptoe

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you need to show/tell your client that although he has been using this guy for years it is now ILLEGAL for him to continue doing so.

do it in as nice a way as possible(try to keep on his good side, it may be an old family friend), but make sure he realises that although you do a PIR it doesnt subsitute for a full EIC for all the hidden/buried cables in the rewired property.

it may be prudent to go out of your way to find as many faults/discrepancies/deviations as you possibly can.

I done a similar PIR a while back and had almost an A4 continuation of faults etc.

it made the client think again about his 'spark' , cost him over a weeks work to find/rectify the faults,(I told him I wouldnt come back to test again without sorting out myself) I gave it to a good friend of mine (who had no work at the time) and came back and tested again a few weeks later.

I/we now get all this guys work regularly.

 
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First job I did for him last week was a property that was empty, in between tenants. I carried out the inspection and testing procedure to discover that...

1. The distribution board had holes around it knocked out big enough for fingers to be pushed in.

2. The RCD protecting all circuits did not trip at x1 or x5 nor when the test button was pressed.

3. Busbar cover missing.

All code 1s I think you'll agree so naturally I told him to be able to "pass" the installation the consumer unit would need to be changed.
Why did the consumer unit need changing ? Change the RCD and fill the holes. I assume the lid was screwed on, the missing busbar cover is most definitely not a code 1, i think its not even worth coding, many C/u have exposed live parts inside.

 

Robbo

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The board was one id never even seen before Slip. Cant recall the name of it to be honest but I checked it against some common breakers etc I had in the Van and none fitted. To match an RCD for it would of been a huuuge task.

Missing busbar cover? I remember watching a NICEIC dvd on inspection, testing, verification a year or so ago. I am 99% sure in there they coded a missing busbar cover a code 1. I know my cousin does too and hes qs for his firm with the NICEIC. I am sure if I checked it with NAPIT they would say the same mate.

As for the state of the cover, holes etc. There were two large cracks across the front cover of the board. Not essentially life threatening now but possible it could just fall apart a year or so down the line. It had probably happened because the numpty who installed it decided to install the old board low enough to get whacked by the front door every time it opened.

I would usually fill the odd small hole/s but sometimes when it looks a bit like swiss cheese it probably time for a change.

Thanks for the replies lads.

I'll update you tonight.

 

Robbo

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Sorry for not replying sooner chaps.

For those of you that care ;) I ended up going to the property in question Friday morning. To avoid writing a post the length of my previous one i'll cut to the chase.

I started to investigate a bit of this sparks work. Checking behind the odd socket etc for sampling.

Usual bad workmanship stuff. Wall boxes not bonded, no rubber grommets used.

As I mentioned briefly Thursday night. Hes split the old kitchen ring and extended it. Run in a new ring for the living room. All this without even noticing the main earth on the property is non exsistent with readings on the rod in question >2000 ohm. No bond to the incoming gas. 100ma rcd that didnt work.

Noticed above the kitchen was a attic trap. Thought id just have a nose to see how he'd run his cables in. Combi boiler in the kitchen and with all the pipes coming and going I wanted to see how neatly he'd been to keep his cables away from hot water pipes and the like.

Well they were run all over the top of them. Then I noticed an old red/black t&e going down to the cooker hood that was not connected to anything. There were also 2 x 2.5 blue/brown t&e there also taped together but with ends revealed.

Clearly he'd split the ring there with the hope of whacking the 3 ends into a jb to provide the socket for the cooker hood with a supply. Why he hadnt got round to finishing that 5 minute job I dont know.

Anyway I thought that only a f*cking plum of an electrician would of been simple enough to leave those cables resting across all the combi pipes with the ends not taped up/in connectors or anything and left it live.

So I tested them. Guess what. He had.

Phoned the owner told him straight that his spark. Whether hes used him for years or not is not competent to be doing the work in my opinion. Spelled it out to him that this isnt just a bit of sloppy workmanship but down right dangerous.

Then I explained that I cant be expected to give this guy a free ride. And what hes doing is ILLEGAL.

Well to cut a long story short I was asked to give them a price to get the house up to scratch and to carry on. Later in the day I was approached by the father of the girl who is purchasing the house (she was there painting) and asked if id like to do some work for their company who contract to alot of local authorities rewiring kitchens, part rewires etc and putting a cert on them.

Yesterday the owner of the house told me he had done away with this other guys services as they had always had the odd problem he would have to return to and that theyd be using me from now on!

We had a good chat about it and got things sorted. Im glad in a way that they arent using him anymore because he clearly doesnt know what hes doing and his view on installing must be just to get things working and either he doesnt know or doesnt care about things like protective devices and earthing I dont know.

So it all worked out for the best in my mind. Picked up a broken earth on the ring main too whilst doing my tests. Socket spurred from the ring in another jb under the floorboards on the landing only had its live and neutral connected.

Then picked up a short on a switch wire to earth that kept tripping the new mcb with the new board I installed. Couldnt work out how there wasnt any trouble before when it was on an old 5A rewireable until I noticed the fuse wire had been replaced with some braided copper wire out of a bit of flex!!!

Again I told the owner and renewed the length of switch wire. He said it must of been the old mans bit of DIYing when he lived there but it did look quite new!

Anyway got it all sorted over Friday a Saturday for them and they are more than happy. And so am I. All worked out for well.

Im a bit concerned though as the owner mentioned to me that this had been "Rewired" yet there is still alot of old wiring in the property. The lighting circuits etc. Seems all the work his spark did was extend the kitchen ring and run a new ring in the living room which is only 3 twin sockets.

Im wondering whether he was getting paid for a full rewire and just swapping the odd socket and switch front and putting a few new sockets in where they wanted extra and charging for a rewire! I hope not but I fear hes been conning them for sometime. Im not going to mention it until I drop the cert off and then explain to them. :(

 

Mr Sworld

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Oh well. All's well that ends well!

You got a lot of new work out of it though! :)

 

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