Whats the strangest place you had a tingle - electric that is

[Robint]

I got a zap from a switch (pattress ABS plastic) which operated a waste disposal unit in a kitchen. It was an illegal bodge, having a main switch near the sink but it had been there for years. I was surprised to get a tingle on it, all plastic no metal around. I put my meter on it and the plastic had become slightly conductive???? It lit my neon as well. I can only assume that years of detergent soap suds had somehow contaminated it. I show the owner, who agreed it needed a pneumatic operated remote switch fitted (as is common for this type of device. It was proprietary and would have to be ordered and cost the owner ca £100 - not happy, paid my call out said she would speak to her husband and get back to me. What could I do - explain and walk away leaving the disposal unit unplugged from a nearby outlet and attach a warning label (and photo) - well you know how it is. Probably should have cut the plug off but that might have seemed vindictive (as she had been using the unit for years. As a sole trader you have to maintain good relations as you rely on your name getting passed on. Thats how it works with Joe Public.

Whats your experiences?

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

It was an illegal bodge, ....

I doubt it was illegal?

As a sole trader you have to maintain good relations as you rely on your name getting passed on. Thats how it works with Joe Public.

Whats your experiences?

As a sole trader you have to ensure ALL your work is left safe.. As it is you who will end up in court if someone gets injured.

There are plenty of cases of serious / fatal injury due to dodgy electrical wiring.
If a customer is not interested in the job being safe.. best to walk away..

Far better to get your name and reputation passed around a better client base..
Rather than you name in the paper as the electrician who left a dangerous installation.

We are working with an invisible product that can kill a healthy adult in less than a second.
So not normally wise to ignore known dangers that you have identified.

 

[binky]

My garage roof. I changed the roof for metal box profile during lockdown. My solar panels were inducing a voltage in the roof, which you only really noticed when touching the edge of the roof. Earth bonded it to solve the problem.

The other fave of mine was copper piping under a bath. Bath frame was metal, whoever installed it managed to put a screw through an old immersion circuit which they had not disconnected at the board, so still live. Customer was complaining of ' electrical noises' under bath. Pipework was live due to plastic elbows, as I found out when I brushed my arm against it... Was not happy

 

[Badger]

My garage roof. I changed the roof for metal box profile during lockdown. My solar panels were inducing a voltage in the roof, which you only really noticed when touching the edge of the roof. Earth bonded it to solve the problem.

The other fave of mine was copper piping under a bath. Bath frame was metal, whoever installed it managed to put a screw through an old immersion circuit which they had not disconnected at the board, so still live. Customer was complaining of ' electrical noises' under bath. Pipework was live due to plastic elbows, as I found out when I brushed my arm against it... Was not happy

Hi binky was there current travelling through your solar rails when theynwree activively.prodicing power on the roof and did the earth bonding solve the voltage issue

 

[Robint]

I doubt it was illegal?


As a sole trader you have to ensure ALL your work is left safe.. As it is you who will end up in court if someone gets injured.

There are plenty of cases of serious / fatal injury due to dodgy electrical wiring.
If a customer is not interested in the job being safe.. best to walk away..

Far better to get your name and reputation passed around a better client base..
Rather than you name in the paper as the electrician who left a dangerous installation.

We are working with an invisible product that can kill a healthy adult in less than a second.
So not normally wise to ignore known dangers that you have identified.

She said it would be better to get a new disposal unit as the existing was 15 yrs old (fair play I agreed it was probably best) so the unit was unplugged coiled up and labelled DO NOT USE and I photo it for my records and that was the last I heard of it and got my call out fee for my trouble. So face saved all round and my name passed around happy housewives, KWIM. So the new installer should follow the code and use a pneumatic button switch. Heheh he will have to drill a 7/8" hole in the granite work top - not my cup of tea - risky, gutty and take all morning with a special drill press - personally I would advise her to get a stone specialist to come and drill the hole. A no-win job I suspect. Sometimes you have to talk fast and walk backwards

 

[Robint]

Hi binky was there current travelling through your solar rails when theynwree activively.prodicing power on the roof and did the earth bonding solve the voltage issue

With Panels they are normally 12 V and strung together to 24 or 48Vdc.
There are some larger systems strung together to run at 480Vdc, even on domestic premises. I spat my dummy out over this. IMHO nothing over 48Vdc should ever be installed on domestic premises. But I was slapped down for my heresy. but this is OT

 

[Phoenix]

I put my meter on it and the plastic had become slightly conductive????

I've not heard of that happening with ABS type plastics, but there are cases of it happening with the phenolic type platics with cutout fuse carriers becoming live if its suffered overheating over its life! (rare, but happened enough that its got its own fault refence code on the sheet that the meter fixers use to report issues to the DNOs)

 

[Robint]

Im not versed on plastics, maybe I mean phenolic resin. It was the typer of hard plastic you get in a typical Wickes pattress switch - no marks or carbonising - mystery never since encountered, but now I think of it, the water supply was from a desal plant and had high salt content, you didnt use it for cooking or drinking (I was in Saudi), so salt impregnating the plastic over time - possible?

 

[Robint]

Another strange place I got zapped was an old tall garden wall. I was wearing flip flops at the time and leant against the wall to steady my self and go a distinct tingle. Sure enough above was an old metal cased garden light. I was young but electrically savvy then so I told the owner.

Begs the question here - how do you protect yourself (legally today). Say you are now adult and legally defined as a Competent Person and you are visitng a house on a social event. You find this unexpected live wall, so you go and tell the owner (who is having a good time and not interested)

What would you do?

a) walk away, not say anything - easiest but could you live with it with a fatal accident?
b) tell the owner (but quietly video the matter)
c) Msg the owner asap with warning (anonymously ?)
d) Go full on protection, chairs/ tape around area with "Live keep away"
e) Switch off Garden lights

What would you do?

 

[ProDave]

Well SWMBO works in a commercial kitchen, all stainless steel worktops and commercial sized ovens, microwaves etc.

She was telling me of staff getting a "tingle" from one (of 3) microwaves. They had reported it and had electricians out twice. The problem was the one on the lower shelf, the 2 on the upper shelf were fine. The one on the lower shelf was new. It was pat tested and declared okay and the electrician checked all the sockets and earth bonding to the metal worktops. Still they got shocks.

I sent SWMBO to work with my socket tester, they reported all sockets had an earth. By some random moving around of plugs, she arrived at a point where with a particular combination of which microwave plugs into which socket, none of them gave a shock. So I suspect some dodgy sockets.

That's a bit of a waffle to say it is not always easy.

 

[Robint]

Indeed these commercial kitchens are scary - electrically, steel everywhere and not bonded????? You could have one table come live thru faulty appliance say and an adjacent not touching table sort of earthed. staff could lean on both with l n r hand - nasty grin on SWMBOs face?

it would concern me? but then I'm old school, Joe Public doesnt let alone cowboy leccies. I would prefer clamp-on visible earth loops

 

[Robint]

By some random moving around of plugs, she arrived at a point where with a particular combination of which microwave plugs into which socket, none of them gave a shock. So I suspect some dodgy sockets.

Maybe a selection of cheap charlie sockets - I had one play up recently spoiled my microwave - had to bin it 12yrs old and prone to arcing anyway

 

[binky]

Hi binky was there current travelling through your solar rails when theynwree activively.prodicing power on the roof and did the earth bonding solve the voltage issue

Bonding solved the issue. Didn't check for any current, the DC cabling is cable tied to the rails, and rails are fixed to the roof. The whole roof is on nice dry 4x2 timber, which I'm guessing was providing enough insulation to allow a charge to build up. S'funny, as I've fitted to quite a few steel rooves and not noticed any voltage build up, but most of those were industrial units, so steel framed buildings.

 

[Swift Solutions Scotland]

While working on a Parallel - 3Phase In - Single Phase 110VAC Output bespoke German UPS (With Borri/Astrid interals) I switched the system to bypass to do a repair. All went Ok, then while clipping some internal trunking covers back on, I got a proper belt from the AC capacitors in the bottom, inc entrance and exit marks, I had checked the parts I was working on were isolatoed but missed the fact the AC capacitors were for some reason still energised. Thankfully the main supply MCCB had earth protection and it tripped. Lesson learnt on my part when working on unusual equipment. I have not made the same mistake since!

 

[binky]

Capacitors are as dangerous as batteries, but usually self-discharge, eventually.

 

[Radiotowers]

Another strange place I got zapped was an old tall garden wall. I was wearing flip flops at the time and leant against the wall to steady my self and go a distinct tingle. Sure enough above was an old metal cased garden light. I was young but electrically savvy then so I told the owner.

Begs the question here - how do you protect yourself (legally today). Say you are now adult and legally defined as a Competent Person and you are visitng a house on a social event. You find this unexpected live wall, so you go and tell the owner (who is having a good time and not interested)

What would you do?

a) walk away, not say anything - easiest but could you live with it with a fatal accident?
b) tell the owner (but quietly video the matter)
c) Msg the owner asap with warning (anonymously ?)
d) Go full on protection, chairs/ tape around area with "Live keep away"
e) Switch off Garden lights

What would you do?

This came from the fiscals office ( Scotland ) ,
as an electrician if you come across anything unsafe and you fail to do something to avert the danger to others and someone does get hurt, and as you are the “expert” and you failed to at least inform someone then you are liable to prosecution. This is even more critical if you are working on the premises.
Then again there are some so called electricians with no conscience who only think about the money and chose a)

 

[Radiotowers]

My garage roof. I changed the roof for metal box profile during lockdown. My solar panels were inducing a voltage in the roof, which you only really noticed when touching the edge of the roof. Earth bonded it to solve the problem.

The other fave of mine was copper piping under a bath. Bath frame was metal, whoever installed it managed to put a screw through an old immersion circuit which they had not disconnected at the board, so still live. Customer was complaining of ' electrical noises' under bath. Pipework was live due to plastic elbows, as I found out when I brushed my arm against it... Was not happy

Should replied earlier, the strangest place would have to be in the middle of a horse paddock whilst walking an HV line looking for a fault.
Was climbing over a fence and noticed the insulator about half a second too late , talk about being black balled !
At least the linesman thought it was funny

 

[Swift Solutions Scotland]

Capacitors are as dangerous as batteries, but usually self-discharge, eventually.

The issue was these AC capacitors were still bolted to the live 3 phase supply!

 

[Robint]

While working on a Parallel - 3Phase In - Single Phase 110VAC Output bespoke German UPS (With Borri/Astrid interals) I switched the system to bypass to do a repair. All went Ok, then while clipping some internal trunking covers back on, I got a proper belt from the AC capacitors in the bottom, inc entrance and exit marks, I had checked the parts I was working on were isolatoed but missed the fact the AC capacitors were for some reason still energised. Thankfully the main supply MCCB had earth protection and it tripped. Lesson learnt on my part when working on unusual equipment. I have not made the same mistake since!

Indeed SMPS systems are well known for have input caps remaining charged. I had a similar experience getting zapped from my PC cos (in the far east) they use 2 wire L+N wiring NO Earth. So you PC is floating and when you walk around in flip flops in the heat on ceramic tiles floors!!!!. My solution here was to drill a small hole into a concrete column and grout in an earth screw - that fixed it. Electrocution is quite common in FE. rice cookers often grasped with both hands, electric showers. I always carried a neon and tested first, then back of hand. Cheap Charlie doesnt do double insulation.

 

[apprentice87]

This came from the fiscals office ( Scotland ) ,
as an electrician if you come across anything unsafe and you fail to do something to avert the danger to others and someone does get hurt, and as you are the “expert” and you failed to at least inform someone then you are liable to prosecution. This is even more critical if you are working on the premises.
Then again there are some so called electricians with no conscience who only think about the money and chose a)

What a complete lot of bollocks that is.. So if you are a car mechanic you are obliged by law to go around pumping up peoples tyres and if you see a car with a fault you either have to rectify it or tell the owner..

Yeah, sure..