A Couple Of Quick Questions

[Barker]

Chaps and Chapesses

I am fitting a light into a loft as part of my NICEIC Assesment but just have a couple of issues that I am wondering about. So I was hoping that you Wise and Wonderful people Would be able to offer some advice.

1, Is there any ruling about how far from an enclosed water tank a light should be fitted. I have Scoured the big red book but cannot see anything that says it should be X distance apart.

2, The house is only two years old and is fitted with a split load MK board the Sockets are all RCD protected but the lighting and everything else is covered by MCB's, should i be fitting a RCBO?

Cheers Folks

 

[M107]

No ruling on how close to the tank you can go with a light fitting so far as I know (dont have the brb to hand) but if the job is for an assessment you might want to think about any questions the assessor will ask about external influences (the water), so why not use a IP rated bulkhead.

I would put the light circuit you have worked on, across to a rcbo.

 

[Gforce]

If the bathroom is upstairs should the lighting circuit for that be rcd too-to 17th edition and if so why not just spur off that then covered both ways-cant recal seeing anything about distances from water tanks myself

 

[Barker]

Cheers, Guys

Replacing the rcbo isn't notifiable is it?

 

[ianmacd]

Would have thoight so since you are changing the disconnection device for a circuit but that maybe wrong.

Ian.

 

[Evans Electric]

Theres no obligation to change everything you come across to the 17th , you'd never win any work . No flush wiring in the loft so no RCD needed. No regs as to the nearness of a water tank. A batten holder does the job but you could posh it up by fitting the switch at ceiling height by the hatch and use a neon ind one to remind client not to leave it on.

Deke

 

[Gforce]

so in that case wouldnt that be a minor works cert not an eic-have you got another major works you are able to show them.

 

[Barker]

I did a consumer unit change as my main notifiable job.

 

[binky]

Just don't melt the tank - only regs would involve distance from light fitting to avoid heat damage eg min 0.5m from a halogen 50W

 

[Gforce]

I did a consumer unit change as my main notifiable job.

Was the consumer unit at a different address-just wondering because you say its nic assesment-well think you did. Some have said on here 2 jobs have to be at different postcodes.

 

[green-hornet]

If you look in the big red book you will see that the distance from a sink is only 300mm, so I guess having it close to a water butt/tank in the loft will not be an issue.

An enclosed light fitting ipx4 would look immpressive for your assesment but not eally needed.

The point of the rcd for the lights, no need if only use is by skilled persons.

This is how with a simple letter that you type you can make the owner of the property "skilled". For eample.

Mr.T.Smith, Has been trained by me in the use and limitations of the lighting circuit in the loft.

He has sufficient knowledge of the wiring sysyem used,and is capable to undertake visual inspection of the wiring and general maintenance including the use of tools for removal of fittings.

He has knowledge of the safe isolation methods and in case of problems can isolate the circuit.

Signed mr electrical man.

This way you could install sockets in an office for example without the need for an rcd,common calls are from dentists, shop keepers etc who have all said they do not want to put rcd,s in or have cu changes just to put an extra couple of sockets on.

 

[Theorysparky]

Theres no obligation to change everything you come across to the 17th , you'd never win any work . No flush wiring in the loft so no RCD needed. No regs as to the nearness of a water tank. A batten holder does the job but you could posh it up by fitting the switch at ceiling height by the hatch and use a neon ind one to remind client not to leave it on.Deke

er ..... would the light still being on be indication enough ????

sorry ......on the beer

:coat

 

[Barker]

G force it was at a different address, they do have to be. this is a revisit as I was given some incorrect information by the NICEIC and my original job was not big enough to count as the assesor only deemed it as maintainance. I had to argue but now I am not paying for the re visit, as someone in their office had emailed me that what i was doing was acceptable. to be honest the assesor was a nice bloke and the original visit was not as scary as i thought it would be.

and cheers Green hornet and every one else for the help.

 

[Theorysparky]

Just don't melt the tank - only regs would involve distance from light fitting to avoid heat damage eg min 0.5m from a halogen 50W

and the common sense factor

 

[Evans Electric]

er ..... would the light still being on be indication enough ????sorry ......on the beer

:coat

Theo, bit early to be on the pop ! I meant put the switch under the ceiling on the landing, lot of folk close the hatch and leave the light on . Went into a bungalow loft yesterday, three fluoros blazing away, been on for months apparently.

Deke

 

[batty]

If NICEIC are excepting a loft light or a consumer unit change as jobs for an assesment they are desperate for numbers. How can you show you are an electrician by showing little jobs like this. If they except this part p is finished as far as I am concearned.

Batty

 

[green-hornet]

I do not think they will.

I have been registered with the NICEIC from the start of part p. All my jobs which have been assessed have been full rewires.I do understand they will allow one major job and on minor.I have never heard of any assesment being done on two minor works.

Ok you could say a cu change is not classed as a minor works but come on its hardly rocket science!

For approved status you have to show a job under way and one completed far better this way as the assessor can see how cable management and cable choice has been selected for the purpose of the installation.

Part P is already finished, it finished the day it was concieved because it is not and never will be enforced, simply because the consumer is totally unaware it exsists, and builders do not like to pay qualified people for chucking a few wires in!!!

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

If you look in the big red book you will see that the distance from a sink is only 300mm, so I guess having it close to a water butt/tank in the loft will not be an issue.An enclosed light fitting ipx4 would look immpressive for your assesment but not eally needed.

The point of the rcd for the lights, no need if only use is by skilled persons.

This is how with a simple letter that you type you can make the owner of the property "skilled". For eample.

Mr.T.Smith, Has been trained by me in the use and limitations of the lighting circuit in the loft.

He has sufficient knowledge of the wiring sysyem used,and is capable to undertake visual inspection of the wiring and general maintenance including the use of tools for removal of fittings.

He has knowledge of the safe isolation methods and in case of problems can isolate the circuit.

Signed mr electrical man.

This way you could install sockets in an office for example without the need for an rcd,common calls are from dentists, shop keepers etc who have all said they do not want to put rcd,s in or have cu changes just to put an extra couple of sockets on.

Office etc is irrelevant in this case because

Virtually ALL work in a commercial environment would have to be undertaken by a skilled/trained/instructed person,

i.e. The employer could be prosecuted under H&S law if they did not provide basic training / information etc.. for ALL of their staff or persons doing work on the electrical installation.

This does NOT apply in a domestic environment..

and a letter to one person IMHO would NOT cover for the occasion when a visitor come to the house..

or another family member comes to the house

or the house is sold to new owners...

there fore the new work should fully comply with current regs.

 

[M107]

Theres no obligation to change everything you come across to the 17th , you'd never win any work . No flush wiring in the loft so no RCD needed. Deke

If I can find a link to spring 09 issue 7 of wiring matters, there is an article about extending circuits & the general gist of it is ...... the whole circuit must be brought upto current 17th edition standards, not just the section the installer added.

"This article shows that in all cases, the 17th edition is to be applied to the entire circuit worked on"

 

[M107]

Found the link

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?tmtwznmmnzm