Apprentices thrown on the scrap heap

[Manator]

This thread has been started by me in response to a recent post in the jobs section where a first year apprentice is about to be thrown off the course unless he gains employment. I myself have taken on such people in the past and even worked on a pioneering project with local schools to take on "problem" none academic pupils from the age of 15. The last 15 year old that I helped out turned out to be a very good worker and would have one day made a really good electrician however in his case personal problems became far to much for him. One of my previous apprentices won the award of the Edmundsons excellence shield and he like the above mentioned would never have finished his course unless I had given him a placement.

I have always thought that an apprentice is an asset to any company, mind having said that I have also had a few bad ones.

However back to the purpose of this thread, I would really like to know how common this scenario is, so if your an apprentice and have been faced with the same problem please post here and let me/us know, did you get any assistance from the college? Or did they just leave it to you to sort out? Did any local firms support the college? I made regular trips to two local colleges to give talks and to explain from an employers view how important an apprentice was.

If you are a college lecturer you could also post here with your thoughts and perhaps some examples of how hard it is to fight an apparently failing system. If you are a local councillor maybe you could post here and tell us how this reflects on the employment in your areas.

Finally if you are an employer please post any thoughts that you have, and maybe some ideas you may have to improve the problems faced by colleges in such hard pressed times, I would be particularly interested in your thoughts about any assistance you think you would need to keep an apprentice employed.

I know its a long read for a thread start but the views shown here may just go some way to change this senseless act of training a young lad for a year or so and then throw him on a scrap heap. Thank you to all who would take the time to post. If anyone wishes to PM me rather than post in open forum please do I will not use any information given in private without your expressed consent.

 

[philbas]

please break it up this hurts my eyeees

 

[Zeespark]

Since starting to go back to basics in starting My business, I have had young lads phone Me up looking for work (nothing unusual there) but I have also gotten a phone call from a local training provider (not T4TS or the like) and they have asked Me if I could be put on their employer contact list if and when I get sorted.

They even asked Me how any experience could be set up to cater for everyone's needs.

AndyGuinness

 

[Ali]

I haven't got anything very interesting to add, just that when I did my 3 years of 2330 I don't think there was one person on the course who wasn't out of a job at some point - me included. 3 years is a long time in this economic climate and it's unreasonable to expect everyone to stay employed.

 

[danmoriarty]

Not quite an apprentice situation but i think it almost fits the situation. After completing my 2330 lvl 2 last year my college made the decision to not offer the 2330 lvl 3 (or so I was led to believe) unless you were employed in the electrical industry (effectively an apprentice). Instead they chose to offer the not so well known or recognised, EAL lvl 3.

This posed a problem. Where I was given every assurance that it was a perfectly good course that tended to focus a little more on electronics rather than hard wiring of domestic/commercial situations, I would have felt more comfortable with receiving a c&g lvl 3 qualification.

Regardless, I eventually succumbed to this new course and got on with it. It soon became painfully obvious that all the lecturers at my college, who definitely know there stuff, had absolutely know idea how to run this course. Every exam I have done to date has been conducted by giving all students the answer sheet provided by the EAL one week (in some cases a day) before the exam and asked to memorise what's on there, no actually teaching had been offered to explain principles/topics being covered. And I poop you not, the total sum of time spent in the work shop actually putting circuits together and practicing testing/fault finding is about 6 hours to date. I've spent more time producing ladder logic program's for PLCs than anything else.

Sorry for the long post, it's 4:30 in the morning and I could do with a rant, I'll try and conclude now.

I believe that my college are far too manipulated by what I would call educational politics and that this EAL course was probably far cheaper to run than the c&g. I also believe that this course in no way prepares any of my fellow students for work as an electrician. Where they might be able to tell you how to program a PLC for some traffic lights, very few of them would know how to terminate some SWA.

I'm 23 myself and I'm in the fortunate position to be working for myself and learn a lot by being on the job (full time landlord). The real kicker to the story though is, only not too long ago I discovered that my college had been running the 2330 lvl 3 as an evening class, and I wouldn't have had to have been employed. Needless to say, I got a little hot headed. I've since made the decision to do the 2391 & the 2382 elsewhere. After completing all this, my current plan is to ***** my self out as the best dam apprentice you'll find ; -)

Anyway, sorry again for the long rant

Dan

(side note, where are the advanced posting options when posting from the iPhone app?)

 

[wozz]

Would you say they have been thrown on the scrap heap if they are after jobs that are not there? Last figures I saw showed C&G for electrical installation far above all others which is a warning sign in itself. Especially as everyone isnt flooded with WELL paid work.

 

[Manator]

Would you say they have been thrown on the scrap heap if they are after jobs that are not there? Last figures I saw showed C&G for electrical installation far above all others which is a warning sign in itself. Especially as everyone isnt flooded with WELL paid work.

Very true Wozz and one of the reasons I started this thread, it appears OK for these institutions to gain funding to effectively throw it all away and start again all over with a new set of students a year after.

 

[Stator_Electrical]

I'll throw in a few comments from the college perspective....

Over the last few years there have been major changes in the way that colleges get paid and also what courses will actually be funded at all. This led to many colleges (specifically vocational areas like electrical and plumbing) being forced to offer alternative courses. This decision has nothing to do with the ease or cost of delivering a particular qualification - it is the difference between being, or not being paid for delivering a course.

Summit Skills (essentially the body who decide on funding and qualifications on behalf of the government) made many fundamental errors which are being addressed slowly, and there are plans to bring in a new C&G electrical installation qualification this year - which will in no way help those who have been forced to change half way through or start with an EAL qualification or such like.

I myself have been the face of a college trying to explain and deal with many unhappy students - which has been truly a horrible position. After all I know as well as anyone else that our industry has long been of the opinion that if you don't hold C&G qualifications then you can pretty much forget it with potential employers.

There have been some colleges which have been able to deliver the C&G 2330 Lv 3 - but this has only been possible where the students themselves cover ALL costs - in many cases

 

[timgdean]

Im one of those thrown on the scrapheap . Tried to move forward in the industry. been held back and get the same answer 'no chance'.Back working on my third year.No help from 'jtl'

Where do I go ?Thought that you get a better standard of living being a tradesman.

t.

 

[danmoriarty]

Im one of those thrown on the scrapheap . Tried to move forward in the industry. been held back and get the same answer 'no chance'.Back working on my third year.No help from 'jtl'Where do I go ?Thought that you get a better standard of living being a tradesman.

t.

Hi tim

What qualifications have you got?

 

[sellers]

Speaking from an employers point of view.

The problem lies with the economy, work isn't guaranteed and we have to look after our businesses.

The way in which apprenticeships are worked hasn't changed meaning its a big commitment to employ someone for 4 years in this climate. JTL offer

 

[danmoriarty]

I'll throw in a few comments from the college perspective....Over the last few years there have been major changes in the way that colleges get paid and also what courses will actually be funded at all. This led to many colleges (specifically vocational areas like electrical and plumbing) being forced to offer alternative courses. This decision has nothing to do with the ease or cost of delivering a particular qualification - it is the difference between being, or not being paid for delivering a course.

Summit Skills (essentially the body who decide on funding and qualifications on behalf of the government) made many fundamental errors which are being addressed slowly, and there are plans to bring in a new C&G electrical installation qualification this year - which will in no way help those who have been forced to change half way through or start with an EAL qualification or such like.

I myself have been the face of a college trying to explain and deal with many unhappy students - which has been truly a horrible position. After all I know as well as anyone else that our industry has long been of the opinion that if you don't hold C&G qualifications then you can pretty much forget it with potential employers.

There have been some colleges which have been able to deliver the C&G 2330 Lv 3 - but this has only been possible where the students themselves cover ALL costs - in many cases

 

[timgdean]

hello all,

nvq level 2 elec installs

nvq 3 elec installs

17 ed wiring regs.

jib traine card.

T.

 

[binky]

My last apprentice was scrap heaped by a big outfit after a year when the housing market collapsed a few years ago. He is now fully qualified a real asset to the company (and so he should be after all the blood sweat and tears I've put into training him

) and on this forum. Having committed to the lad I kept him on when times were hard and work thin on the ground. The result is I now have a very good employee who is quite loyal to me ( vice versa). I am considering taking on another apprentice, but I am reluctant to do so because of the looming doom and gloom, and the foreseeable end of the Solar work, which has kept us so busy the last year. Personally I quite like taking on part trained apprentices, as some one else has had the joy of teaching the really basic stuff like how to turn up for work and terminate sockets, and will probaly do this again after I've worked out how much work we have got going forward.