Architrave dry lining back box ??

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

base on my research there are 200k sparks in the uk, if 1 in 4 of us use 1 each year that will do me  as I’m not looking to be a millionaire but would be nice if it acts as a pension pot item. 

From the random sample of this forum, your projected estimations sound very optimistic...

Saying 1 in 4 out of 200,000sparks could use one 1 per year is projecting 50,000 items to be sold per year..

(e.g. over 4 years you sell 200,000.)

This is just the same as saying every spark would buy 1 every 4 years..    (200,000 sold over 4years).

But from 5 responses here, it sounds like no one has needed one over 10years, (or greater), time span.  

(I've never needed one in 22years of self employment, or 19+ years as an employee before that.)  

I think you would be pushing it to get 1 out of 100 sparks needing 1 every 10years.

(e.g. 2000 per 10years..  or 200 units per year).

If you could buy them for around the price of a standard single gang dry-line box..  (no more than 75p each)

I may be tempted to buy 1 to keep in the "just in case" box..

But...

as this is a product to cut into a plasterboard wall..

I'm still struggling to think of any plasterboard wall that is so narrow you can't cut in a standard box..

Or screw a metal box, (less than £1.00),  onto a nearby stud..

Or if it was such a faff you just fix a surface box.. again less than £1.00.

 

[Steve Bryant]

From the random sample of this forum, your projected estimations sound very optimistic...

Saying 1 in 4 out of 200,000sparks could use one 1 per year is projecting 50,000 items to be sold per year..

(e.g. over 4 years you sell 200,000.)

This is just the same as saying every spark would buy 1 every 4 years..    (200,000 sold over 4years).

But from 5 responses here, it sounds like no one has needed one over 10years, (or greater), time span.  

(I've never needed one in 22years of self employment, or 19+ years as an employee before that.)  

I think you would be pushing it to get 1 out of 100 sparks needing 1 every 10years.

(e.g. 2000 per 10years..  or 200 units per year).

If you could buy them for around the price of a standard single gang dry-line box..  (no more than 75p each)

I may be tempted to buy 1 to keep in the "just in case" box..

But...

as this is a product to cut into a plasterboard wall..

I'm still struggling to think of any plasterboard wall that is so narrow you can't cut in a standard box..

Or screw a metal box, (less than £1.00),  onto a nearby stud..

Or if it was such a faff you just fix a surface box.. again less than £1.00.

I take it your not into the idea then . This post only has only 5 responses so very narrow audience, wholesalers I’ve had initial chats with have said they have been asked for them numerous times so I hope to prove you wrong, my take on it is you only fit an architrave switch when a normal one won’t fit, if your buying a switch and have the option of a dry liner I personally think people will go for it, Sometimes you have to try a different Avenue

 

[UNG]

Thanks for the feedback guys, I’ve been a sparky for 27 years, I know it’s not something that will be fitted every day but it’s a get you out of the ****e item, when they move a door lining on second fix, would you rather spend time trying to carve it out and fill the wall after or 2 mins fitting one of these, I’ve also spent my time making low level light fittings that will fit into the boxes, I get the price is not cheap and will be cheaper as more boxes sell, it’s been a real eye opener bringing the product to market how much is involved in every way, base on my research there are 200k sparks in the uk, if 1 in 4 of us use 1 each year that will do me  as I’m not looking to be a millionaire but would be nice if it acts as a pension pot item. 

So in your 27 years as a spark how many architrave switches have you fitted where a drylining box would have been beneficial

I think some of your numbers are extremely optimistic and I would have to question them. 200,000 sparks would mean that around 1 in 164 people of the working age population in the UK is a spark, another statistic that is missing is the split of domestic, commercial and industrial sparks in that 200,000

With regard to carving out a wall a multi tool makes the job very easy and I can't remember any job where I have used an architrave switch where there was nothing to fix the box to

The biggest problem you have is the price point and short production runs mean the price per unit will always remain high. While you have a unique product at the moment you have to look at who you are up against I'm sure the likes of Ashley and the other fastafix box manufacturers who have been producing boxes for many years have looked at this and decided that there is no market to warrant the manufacture of them and insignificant production runs are not cost effective

Adding lights to the box portfolio won't necessarily enhance sales and the overall price of the product will be the big hurdle to overcome

I take it your not into the idea then . This post only has only 5 responses so very narrow audience, wholesalers I’ve had initial chats with have said they have been asked for them numerous times so I hope to prove you wrong, my take on it is you only fit an architrave switch when a normal one won’t fit, if your buying a switch and have the option of a dry liner I personally think people will go for it, Sometimes you have to try a different Avenue

I'm with Special Location on the figures and they don't stand up. I don't see that you have a big market for these boxes, ok so " wholesalers I’ve had initial chats with have said they have been asked for them numerous times" but how many times over what period of time and how many architrave switches are they selling

I wish I could share your optimism but you would need production runs of hundreds of thousands to bring the price down to a reasonable level

 

[Steve Bryant]

So in your 27 years as a spark how many architrave switches have you fitted where a drylining box would have been beneficial

I think some of your numbers are extremely optimistic and I would have to question them. 200,000 sparks would mean that around 1 in 164 people of the working age population in the UK is a spark, another statistic that is missing is the split of domestic, commercial and industrial sparks in that 200,000

With regard to carving out a wall a multi tool makes the job very easy and I can't remember any job where I have used an architrave switch where there was nothing to fix the box to

The biggest problem you have is the price point and short production runs mean the price per unit will always remain high. While you have a unique product at the moment you have to look at who you are up against I'm sure the likes of Ashley and the other fastafix box manufacturers who have been producing boxes for many years have looked at this and decided that there is no market to warrant the manufacture of them and insignificant production runs are not cost effective

Adding lights to the box portfolio won't necessarily enhance sales and the overall price of the product will be the big hurdle to overcome

I'm with Special Location on the figures and they don't stand up. I don't see that you have a big market for these boxes, ok so " wholesalers I’ve had initial chats with have said they have been asked for them numerous times" but how many times over what period of time and how many architrave switches are they selling

I wish I could share your optimism but you would need production runs of hundreds of thousands to bring the price down to a reasonable level

I fully agree it’s not going to be a big earner and will take time for people to realise it’s an option, if it grows slowly and gives me a few quid to pay for itself and then make a profit it’s worth doing in the long run , as I get older my knees are getting worse from doing the job, sometimes you need to try different things, if you don’t try you’ll never know, the price point is understandably an issue but design and manufacture has cost more than I had imagined, the price point will come down for sure, hopefully I’ll be able to find a balance that’s earns enough and makes it appealing for customers , I’ve gone this far and the money has been invested so can only generate money now however much it maybe. 

 

[Sharpend]

It will only generate money if it sells and selling one batch to the wholesalers is one thing but how long between repeat orders? This will be a product that will eventually find its way into the pound shops etc as bankrupt stock. I’m not trying to put down your efforts Steve but I think that if it was considered a viable business strategy then the existing producers would have it in their arsenal already? Perhaps the fact it isn’t is research enough to say it’s a non-starter? I just hope that the costs you have already spent isn’t your pension now gone? 
 

wish you all the best and if I do see them then I might just buy one out of respect for your efforts.  

 

[Steve Bryant]

It will only generate money if it sells and selling one batch to the wholesalers is one thing but how long between repeat orders? This will be a product that will eventually find its way into the pound shops etc as bankrupt stock. I’m not trying to put down your efforts Steve but I think that if it was considered a viable business strategy then the existing producers would have it in their arsenal already? Perhaps the fact it isn’t is research enough to say it’s a non-starter? I just hope that the costs you have already spent isn’t your pension now gone? 
 

wish you all the best and if I do see them then I might just buy one out of respect for your efforts.  

Thanks for the positive note at the end which has seemed rare on this thread, it’s not going to put me under or effect me too much if not, we will see in due course , it’s been a learning curve getting something to market compared to what I’ve done for my whole career so plenty learnt if not. 

 

[UNG]

I fully agree it’s not going to be a big earner and will take time for people to realise it’s an option, if it grows slowly and gives me a few quid to pay for itself and then make a profit it’s worth doing in the long run , as I get older my knees are getting worse from doing the job, sometimes you need to try different things, if you don’t try you’ll never know, the price point is understandably an issue but design and manufacture has cost more than I had imagined, the price point will come down for sure, hopefully I’ll be able to find a balance that’s earns enough and makes it appealing for customers , I’ve gone this far and the money has been invested so can only generate money now however much it maybe. 

Having worked on building an injection moulding plant some years ago I know what the costs can be just for setting up the with moulds before you start to produce anything and back then you needed to have quite large regular production runs to hit the right unit price

 

[ProDave]

Thanks for the positive note at the end which has seemed rare on this thread, it’s not going to put me under or effect me too much if not, we will see in due course , it’s been a learning curve getting something to market compared to what I’ve done for my whole career so plenty learnt if not. 

I say well done for doing it.  I would not have had a clue how to put something like that to manufacture.

I tend to agree with everyone else, it is a niche product.  Architrave boxes are by their nature a niche product anyway but I for one and glad there is another option available, even if I might actually never use it.

 

[dave151]

I have signed up to the forum just to say thank you to @Steve Bryant for creating this.

I have been searching all over the place for this type of product and found a 3D printing template for one similar but this has saved all that hassle of finding someone to print it. Looking forward to installing these!

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

I have signed up to the forum just to say thank you to @Steve Bryant for creating this.

I have been searching all over the place for this type of product and found a 3D printing template for one similar but this has saved all that hassle of finding someone to print it. Looking forward to installing these!

Well..

What a coincidence..   within a couple of days of @Steve Bryant replying to a thread that is over 3 years old..

where the majority of the responses suggest that the need for dry-line architrave back boxes is negligible..

A.N.Other @dave151 bowls up saying they are exactly what he needed..  :Chairfall

I will just pause to say I admire Steve's motivation to have a go and produce a new product..  :Salute   :Applaud   Guinness   well done..   I could NOT have done it!

BUT..  reality check says..

1/ This forum has been around for approx 13+ years..

2/ This forum has over 32,000 members who have registered/logged on at some point..  not all are electricians..  but a significant number are..

3/ Forum search suggest this question of dry-line architrave boxes has cropped up ONCE during this time..

4/ The third post from the original question (Posted by M107) shows an existing product than could do the job, if needed, in combination with a standard metal back-box..

e.g. TLC part No "AP 603" https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/AP603.html 51p + VAT, or 41p + VAT if you buy 10, (2 required per box)... 

So a solution exists at less than £1.25..  if or when the problem does very rarely arise!

The big question still is..

Do you not think that all of the other manufactures of metal, pattress or dry-line boxes have not considered if an architrave dry-line box should be added to their portfolio? 

And/Or..

If there really is a need..

the big brands could very quickly start the own production, undercutting any new-start-up company swamping potential market sales..

(Unless of course you have acquired some sort of legal patent preventing other competition?)  

If this is an investment like stocks & shares, that you can comfortably afford make a null return,

or a loss, without any major impact to your personal wellbeing  or lifestyle..   Then you have nothing to lose..

and if it does come up trumps your a winner..    If not you've lost nothing..

BUT..

If you are really hoping for a good return to ensure a comfortable retirement..

It is on helluva big gamble!

As you have a very expensive solution to a very rare problem.. 

Compared to say Wago's as an expensive solution to a very common problem..

but time savings & convenience make Wago's a no-brainer!!

I just cannot see where your proposed option is the cheapest, quickest and most convenient solution?

:C    

 

[Steve Bryant]

I have signed up to the forum just to say thank you to @Steve Bryant for creating this.

I have been searching all over the place for this type of product and found a 3D printing template for one similar but this has saved all that hassle of finding someone to print it. Looking forward to installing these!

Hi Dave, no problem at all, nice to hear the positive feedback, I designed and proto typed the product using my 3 d printer which saved a considerable amount of money, I will pop a couple extra boxes in your order thanking you for the positive response, cheers Steve 

 

[Steve Bryant]

Well..

What a coincidence..   within a couple of days of @Steve Bryant replying to a thread that is over 3 years old..

where the majority of the responses suggest that the need for dry-line architrave back boxes is negligible..

A.N.Other @dave151 bowls up saying they are exactly what he needed..  :Chairfall

I will just pause to say I admire Steve's motivation to have a go and produce a new product..  :Salute   :Applaud   Guinness   well done..   I could NOT have done it!

BUT..  reality check says..

1/ This forum has been around for approx 13+ years..

2/ This forum has over 32,000 members who have registered/logged on at some point..  not all are electricians..  but a significant number are..

3/ Forum search suggest this question of dry-line architrave boxes has cropped up ONCE during this time..

4/ The third post from the original question (Posted by M107) shows an existing product than could do the job, if needed, in combination with a standard metal back-box..

e.g. TLC part No "AP 603" https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/AP603.html 51p + VAT, or 41p + VAT if you buy 10, (2 required per box)... 

So a solution exists at less than £1.25..  if or when the problem does very rarely arise!

The big question still is..

Do you not think that all of the other manufactures of metal, pattress or dry-line boxes have not considered if an architrave dry-line box should be added to their portfolio? 

And/Or..

If there really is a need..

the big brands could very quickly start the own production, undercutting any new-start-up company swamping potential market sales..

(Unless of course you have acquired some sort of legal patent preventing other competition?)  

If this is an investment like stocks & shares, that you can comfortably afford make a null return,

or a loss, without any major impact to your personal wellbeing  or lifestyle..   Then you have nothing to lose..

and if it does come up trumps your a winner..    If not you've lost nothing..

BUT..

If you are really hoping for a good return to ensure a comfortable retirement..

It is on helluva big gamble!

As you have a very expensive solution to a very rare problem.. 

Compared to say Wago's as an expensive solution to a very common problem..

but time savings & convenience make Wago's a no-brainer!!

I just cannot see where your proposed option is the cheapest, quickest and most convenient solution?

:C    

I actually don’t know Dave 151 as implied but he has placed an order for 3 boxes .

( I’ll be able to eat tonight )

I’m afraid that we will have to see on this one an they have other uses than just light switches. 
 

I have considered the fact why the the big boys have not made one and yes it’s because it’s not worth it for them, the reason I’ve done it is because they are obviously not going to so I have no competition, if they decided to they would obviously be able to undercut me. 
 

As for price point it is high through ebay at the moment but that’s my easiest instant route to market to get it recognised until it is in the wholesalers. 
 

postage @ £2.90

VAT 

EBAY fees

paypay

All these factors for a transaction all to be taken into account so no I’m certainly not getting rich from it, wholesale will be the route to market. 
 

The wholesalers will be selling them in the region of £2-2.50 + VAT depending on what mark up they decide. 

This price may come down if sales increase.

One thing I did discover during my research although some believe I didn’t do any is the flammability of leading manufacturers boxes. Quite eye opening how flammable they are and what smoke they produce once a flame is put to them hence why I’ve made mine V0, self extinguishing within 10 seconds, I don’t understand why others are not made from this unless it’s a case of penny pinching. 

I’ve said that I’m not expecting to get rich from this but any income once it’s paid for itself is better than none in my eyes and I’m providing a product for those that want to buy it, I’m happy and hopefully others will be also. 

 

[kerching]

I've just had a thought.....you may have beaten me to,it though

how about targeting the-alarm/CCTV sector?.....they would be really handy for coiling some spare cable in behind the detector/camera

just a thought as I have just put some sensors in and had to shove the excess down inside the wall. So,doubtless it will be a pain to retrieve if needed

 

[Steve Bryant]

I've just had a thought.....you may have beaten me to,it though

how about targeting the-alarm/CCTV sector?.....they would be really handy for coiling some spare cable in behind the detector/camera

just a thought as I have just put some sensors in and had to shove the excess down inside the wall. So,doubtless it will be a pain to retrieve if needed

For sure, it’s certainly a neater / less obtrusive way of concealing unwanted cables with a blank plate, I used them to conceal mini 12v drivers in behind light fittings as well 

 

[UNG]

The wholesalers will be selling them in the region of £2-2.50 + VAT depending on what mark up they decide.

So the price point is now starting to look a bit more realistic and volume manufacturing would no doubt push it down further

 

[d11448002]

Well chaps, I’ve had the need for one of these a few times over the years so have spent the time and money recently investing in getting these manufactured, currently on eBay and will soon be on my website and in your local wholesales 

Hey Steve - do you have a link to that...? im from Australia - thought architrave switches like the link below look good as bedside lamp switches straight onto the plasterboard/gyprock (im not an electrician...)

these dont exist here also.

cheers

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Clipsal-SATURN-LED-PUSH-BUTTON-SWITCH-1-Gang-Architrave-20A-250V-Horizon-Black-/264296269550

 

[Geoff1946]

Makes the back-boxes look cheap.

 

[Steve Bryant]

Hey Steve - do you have a link to that...? im from Australia - thought architrave switches like the link below look good as bedside lamp switches straight onto the plasterboard/gyprock (im not an electrician...)

these dont exist here also.

cheers

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Clipsal-SATURN-LED-PUSH-BUTTON-SWITCH-1-Gang-Architrave-20A-250V-Horizon-Black-/264296269550

Sorry I’m not allowed to post the link to eBay as I’ve just been given a warning by  admin for advertising 

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Sorry I’m not allowed to post the link to eBay as I’ve just been given a warning by  admin for advertising 

I think you need to pay for the privilege to advertise....

Just the same as the other sponsors do....?

:C

 

[d11448002]

Sorry I’m not allowed to post the link to eBay as I’ve just been given a warning by  admin for advertising 

all is well

can you suggest the title/search keywords to look it up?