ASHP - Am I so unlucky?

[Creakyride]

Over 8 months ago I started a journey towards Solar PV and ASHP With two separate companies.
The Solar PV has its own thread on this forum.

After getting the grant and having two different companies having a stab at it, I had to cancel the first one soon after the first survey as after that was carried out, as the installer wouldn't come to my property to address some of my concerns.
So the next one came along, did the survey and I waited months for the results, then the technical survey was carried out (apparently it's normal to re-check the measurements before the actual installation). Was promised that the works would be carried out within weeks... Many months later, people don't reply to me and I am worried I am going to loose the grant already agreed because it has take too long for the company to carrying it out.

Is this happened to any of you or is it just me the unlucky one?

 

[ProDave]

The trouble is to get the grant, you have to use an MCS company, and i have a very low opinion of them, they over inflate the price so effectively they are benefitting from the grant, not you.

You might look instead at just buying the ASHP and associated bits and paying a local electrician and plumber to install it. It will probably cost you less overall, you won't be lining some fat cats pockets, and with a plumber and electrician you can trust, you will probably get a better job.

 

[binky]

The trouble is to get the grant, you have to use an MCS company, and i have a very low opinion of them, they over inflate the price so effectively they are benefitting from the grant, not you.

Concur, and with trade being so brisk, they only take on the easy jobs

 

[ProDave]

You can buy an ASHP for £3-4K to fit, the plumbing is just like a system boiler. the electrics are a little more complicated but any electrician that can read an installation manual can do it. I have fitted 4 now including my own and I would say 2 days labour for each trade. On that basis a £10K all in paid for install should be possible, but you won't get anything like that even allowing for the grant.

We have a target to install many thousands of heat pumps per year, but you are not going to get anywhere near that with the stupid grand system and MCS fat cats schemes. The governments plans and the way they are trying to do it is so far off target to be unbelievable but they can't see it.

We will only start to install enough heat pumps when every plumber and electrician currently installing boilers are doing heat pumps, but the present system actively excludes those from the vast majority of jobs, because the public have been brainwashed to thinking the only way to do it is MCS and the grant.

 

[binky]

You can buy an ASHP for £3-4K to fit, the plumbing is just like a system boiler. the electrics are a little more complicated but any electrician that can read an installation manual can do it. I have fitted 4 now including my own and I would say 2 days labour for each trade. On that basis a £10K all in paid for install should be possible, but you won't get anything like that even allowing for the grant.

We have a target to install many thousands of heat pumps per year, but you are not going to get anywhere near that with the stupid grand system and MCS fat cats schemes. The governments plans and the way they are trying to do it is so far off target to be unbelievable but they can't see it.

We will only start to install enough heat pumps when every plumber and electrician currently installing boilers are doing heat pumps, but the present system actively excludes those from the vast majority of jobs, because the public have been brainwashed to thinking the only way to do it is MCS and the grant.

MCS is just another quango trying to make money, I laughed my socks off when they were on the news the other day making out they were a not for profit charity. One where the directors get paid handsomely of course

 

[johnb2713]

Instead of buying the air to water heatpump, buy an air conditioner that does heating and cooling with much better efficiencies than the air to water heat pumps and you get the benefit of cooling in the summer. We have 14 of them in various parts of the house, really efficient on both heating and cooling, they are also very fast to respond unlike air to water which often needs bigger radiators to cope with the lower flow temperatures.

 

[Sharpend]

How do you find the running costs for all the AC?

 

[poni]

14 of them in various parts of the house

how big is your house? (or how many do you have in each room)

 

[johnb2713]

5 bed detached plus granny flat. One unit in most spaces, 2 in the conservatory and 1 in my shed.

 

[johnb2713]

How do you find the running costs for all the AC?

Really good, I have used gas during winter to provide background heat but then top up the rooms were in using AC. Running on off peak / battery it's cheaper than gas. Cooling in the summer is really good and solar feeds that no problem - sun shining = heat = free aircon!

Here's the one in our kitchen, 3.5kW unit, usually runs at about 250w actual consumption heating or cooling.

 

[Kot]

Great idea Johnb2713, I know you would have researched the heck out of this, so what's the best model and cheapest supplier

 

[johnb2713]

We've had aircon units for the last 30 years, the original units were Qualitair units, amazingly reliable and substantially engineered. Most recently we have replaced them with Mitsubishi units for greater efficiency. There are two types of Mitsubishi units, one of them says Mitsubishi Heavy Industries on the outdoor unit and the other doesnt, it's the heavy industries version that I chose. This version is a little more heavy duty, better fan balance etc. They both have the inverter drives which are incredible. All of the rooms we have 3.5kW versions except my office which has a 5kW version (I bought it 6 months old used for £300!). In the summer time on the hot summer nights when it's too hot to sleep, it's easy to switch it on, lowest fan speed and it is absolutely inaudible in the bedroom. Humidty and temperature are brought to much more comfortable levels (it's the humidity that causes most discomfort).

There are various suppliers around, plenty on ebay, theres little difference price wise between 2.5kW and 3.5kW so you may as well have 3.5.

Example
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/33478014...dLkwrDWZeXUyohqLYvvHEvtyQ=|tkp:Bk9SR6jW2LP9YQ

 

[Sharpend]

Mitsi heavy is what I work with and have found it very good.

 

[johnb2713]

Mitsi heavy is what I work with and have found it very good.

Touch wood, they do seem very good, I have about 4 left to do to become all Mitsubishi units. The efficiency is amazing, I've seen -8 deg C outside and still theyre pumping the heat out with very little energy being consumed. I've just managed to pick up a 7.5 kW unit with ceiling mounted cassette, it's only been installed for 3 months, £500, absolute bargain and will sort out my shop heating and cooling.

 

[binky]

Mitsi heavy is what I work with and have found it very good.

Mitsubishi, Daikin and Toshiba are the Aircon of choice. Toshiba are expensive. I used to work in Toshiba Aircon UK factory. Daikin were regarded as the main competitors, almost as good a spec, but about half the price.

 

[michael8554]

Looks interesting John.
Just had a quick google,.
I see they have an ASHP type unit, connected to the wall vent by pipework.
How hard was it to install the pipework, my wife won't like visible pipes ?
Does each unit have it's own MCB in the CU ?
Any other hurdles ?

 

[Geoff1946]

It's the big lump on the wall that puts me off. With the relatively low ceilings and generous windows of my bungalow I can't see anywhere to put one without it being a major "feature". I found one acceptable spot in the conservatory with the plumbing into the adjacent roof space but I can't conceal a gravity water drain from there.
Are there any with all the works outside and just underfloor ducting and a few discreet grilles ?

 

[johnb2713]

Looks interesting John.
Just had a quick google,.
I see they have an ASHP type unit, connected to the wall vent by pipework.
How hard was it to install the pipework, my wife won't like visible pipes ?
Does each unit have it's own MCB in the CU ?
Any other hurdles ?

I arranged supplies to the locations of the outdoor units, each unit has an individual 16A MCB.

In terms of pipe work, there’s a 6mm dia (from memory) and a 10mm dia for the refrigerant and a 20mm or so condensate drain. It is possible to pump the condensate and it can go up and over a ceiling for example with a smaller pipe. The one in my kitchen in the photo above has a pump, it’s in the ducting at the RH side.

Installing the pipe work is easy, the copper pipe bends in your hands etc. the ends of the pipes are flared (like car brake lines) and connected up.

You then use a vacuum pump to remove the air, release the refrigerant, put the kettle on and watch your electricity meter spin slowly whilst a vast amount of heat is emitted.

J

 

[MikeJhn]

Are there any with all the works outside and just underfloor ducting and a few discreet grilles ?

You have just described an Air Conditioning unit and not a split load ASHP that are incorrectly described as Air Conditioning.

 

[bladerunnerpv]

.... buy an air conditioner that does heating and cooling with much better efficiencies than the air to water heat pumps and you get the benefit of cooling in the summer ...., really efficient on both heating and cooling, they are also very fast to respond ....

Thanks for info John, not seen these before, intriguing.

Looks tempting for summertime, interesting to hear work well in wintertime too. I wondered if there was some temperature below which heating function would not work. The spec for heating is for outdoor temperatures of -15 to +21C, for cooling it's apparently -15(!) to +46C.

Power consumption spec is ~1kW for the srk35, ~750W for the srk25, presumably at max load, so 250W is a pleasant surprise.
(see the pdf link at
https://www.orionairsales.co.uk/mit...ll-25kw9000btu-a-r32-install-kit-11230-p.asp)
The outdoor fan unit is approx 700x540x275 for the 2.5kw version, Max 10m vertical pipe run and 15m lateral from indoor unit to reach it. Food for thought, I'm just visualising if it's possible for us to make space for these!!

I had a hunt to see if one could be installed in a bathroom but didn't find any info, presumably not as no IP rating is mentioned in the spec.

if you have time to respond may I ask do they need to be installed on an external wall only or is it doable on a plasterboarded partition wall ?