Can I do ANY DIY work on business premises?

[septiclecky]

The case where someone did electrical work on a friends pub and a child was electrocuted, he ended up going to prison comes to mind

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

The case where someone did electrical work on a friends pub and a child was electrocuted, he ended up going to prison comes to mind

Indeed, and this was work done by someone who claimed to be an "Experienced Electrician"..
Presumably retired as he was 73?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-55753100

And I guess wiring a few lights is a trivial task as well?

 

[truffle pig]

Its not "illegal" ie, by doing this you could not be carried off by the police. However, it would be against regulations and as such, if there was a problem you would be held accountable and potentially charged with negligence.
As for whether you could do it as a retired sparky - Im a qualified sparks and although I could do a visual check, without the appropriate test equipment I could not verify that the circuit was safe (ZS / IR readings and RCD tripping times ETC).
Surely the question is not "is it legal" more "is it worth the risk for the sake of a few quid" especially with children around

 

[Mike.J]

I asked what the legal position was in my original question. I clarified this several times, but I'll try again: can someone who is not an accredited, insured professional electrician legally do any electrical work on a business premise?

Simple answer is YES, but at your own risk, there are no qualifications to be an electrician.

 

[Tulip Spark]

I think yes is the answer you want to hear so yes, crack on. If you electrocuted someone and get used then off you go to prison. Like the rest of us would. Our defence would be our before installation testing, testing during install and live testing upon completion. Certification issued to client and our insurance coverage. Have you got any of that? For paying an electrician for the piece of mind, is it worth the cost saving. No in my opinion. If you killed one of my kids to save a few quid, could you live with that.

 

[Mike.J]

If any electrocution happened and it went to court, the prosecution would have to prove guilt i.e. it was part of you installation that caused the electrocution, your competency to carry out electrical work would be part of the prosecutions case, there are no qualifications to ask if you have them, just the various bodies that purport to be the standard to work by, this has been proved on numerous occasions to be a false indication and therefor of no relevance to your guilt or not, the prosecution would call expert witness's, but they also will not have any electrical qualifications and the prosecution would hinge on Health and Safety issue's.

 

[Andy™]

if you get it wrong to the point your in court, being qualified or not probably isnt going to make all that much difference anyway

 

[apprentice87]

Now, i am not an electrician at all. I am a qualified welder but now i work for the NHS.

Would i do the work you are suggesting?? DEFINITELY NOT and i have forgotten more about electrical work than you will ever know..

Ok, so you say it is a "trivial matter" and you say can do it "easy".. Ok, lets have a little test of your knowledge shall we??

1, What is the earthing type employed for the installation and what relevance does this have to your new sockets??

2, What methods of ADS are employed for protection against overcurrent and shock hazards??

3, What are the required disconnection times for your new circuit and what factors could affect the required values??

4, What is the max permitted volt drop for your circuit?? What is max EFLI??

5, Explain how you would calculate the cable size required??

6, What is Zs, and what is Zs for your circuit as it is, and what will Zs be for the completed circuit.

7, Explain what the required "dead" tests are and how would you go about them??

8, What are "live" tests and what would you do??

9, Explain what Zs is, and how would you measure it??

10, In addition to devices required for overrcurrent protection, what devices are required for shock protection and how would you check their operation??

11, What SPECIALISED testing apparatus would you require for testing purposes and in what way would this equipment differ from a multimeter, say for testing continuity or testing insulation resistance??

12, Do you think you could answer these questions off the top of your head, when asked by an electrical engineer, whilst standing in a coroners court??

As others have pointed out, it might not be a LEGAL requirement to be "qualified" but it IS a legal requirement to be competant. Still think you are??

What about the common law duty of care??

Not so "trivial" now eh...

john..

 

[Mike.J]

An electrical engineer would not be allowed to cross examine the accused in a coroners court so the above would not happen.

When you forgot more than the OP knows, you also forgot your manners.

 

[Sharpend]

An electrical engineer would not be allowed to cross examine the accused in a coroners court so the above would not happen.

When you forgot more than the OP knows, you also forgot your manners.

Would you care to expand? I’m fairly sure that we have one member that acts as a professional witness?

 

[steptoe]

An electrical engineer would not be allowed to cross examine the accused in a coroners court so the above would not happen.

When you forgot more than the OP knows, you also forgot your manners.

Where does it say when cross examined by an electrical engineer in the coroner's court,?
I think you are mis-interpeting the statement,
The prosecution will have a series of questions that will have been drafted by an electrical engineer, in order to be able to establish, amongst other things, the installers competence.

 

[Sidewinder]

I could easily tie up a layperson in knots with the information I would provide to counsel for cross examination.

 

[Sharpend]

I could easily tie up a layperson in knots with the information I would provide to counsel for cross examination.

That’s not fair, you quoting Regs ties up most ‘sparks’ on here!!

 

[Mike.J]

In a Coroners Court an expert witness's can give advice in their specialist field, but not allowed to ask questions or cross examine, there is no prosecution council to ask those questions, I think you all have missed the point of difference between a Coroners Court and Crown Court where the prosecution is brought by the Crown Prosecution Service, a Coroners Court is just to find the cause of a death not to lay blame at anyone person/s, only if the Coroner is unable to reach a cause of death they will forward the case to the CPS who will then make a decision of whether to prosecute in Crown Court.

 

[steptoe]

I think you will find @Mike.J , that a witness in any court can ask a question, as to whether the person/s presiding will allow the question to be answered is another matter.

 

[apprentice87]

I think you will find that it is you that has missed the point..

"an independent expert, instructed by the Coroner, to prepare a report and give an opinion on a case to help the Coroner reach a verdict."

and having heard from the witness as to the "competance" of the perosn that has done the work, what do you think his verdict will be????

Further..

"In addition to the Coroner as the judicial officer any properly interested party (and this status is determined by the Coroner although there are some key parties including the deceased’s family that are always such a party) can be present and ask questions of any witnesses called and they can be legally represented although public funding for such an appointment is very limited"

So there you have it, The coroner, can and WILL appoint an electrical engineer, who WILL, question the witness [YOU[ and when the coroner decides teh cause of death was incompetance on the part of the installer, THEN the CPS or the HSE will draw their conclusions... [and guess what they will be]

john..

 

[Mike.J]

A coroner would never ask for a conclusion from the expert witness on the competency of an individual, only their opinion of the installation, satisfactory or unsatisfactory, the words competent or incompetent would never be used.

You'r thinking is very confused, the HSE can refer a case to the CPS, but would probably not be involved in a case of death unless there was a blatant breach of the Health and Safety at Work Act, death is a Police investigation or would go straight to Coroners Court if the death was at first thought not to be suspicious, but again the HSE will never draw a conclusion, only give opinions.

PIP's and legal representatives can indeed ask a questions, but only through the Coroner who has sole discretion on the pertinence of the question, the Coroner is not an electrician and probably would not understand the list of questions you wanted to ask in your last but one post or the answers, therefore, the questions would probably not be put to the defendant and would not influence the Coroners conclusion of the case.