Commercial Exploitation Of This Trade.

[Evans Electric]

In my many decades in this trade I have never seen such a blast of, in your face , hard sell , commercialism , geared to yet another launch of ammended IEE Regs .

I just opened the NICEIC  Connections magazine , accompanied with seperate advertising , much of it based on the much trumpeted launch of the BYB  .  It has been put to me that this is to be now expected at ,at least 2 year intervals . 

Oh how we rub our hands in expectation . !    What will they introduce into AM4 ?    It won't be long and we'll all be digging into our pockets once more .

And why do'es evey updated version have to be accompanied by an OSG  with the same stuff in .  I'm guessing it's for the employed sparks  who would not be buying a BYB  ( Firm will buy one for the office )    but £25 can be squeezed out of the operatives. 

The self employed find its a requirement  of Scam Membership .  

I think this started with the 15th  when we were all wandering around in the dark with different coloured editions .  It got so bad that the NICEIC , I think ,  issued a guide to see if you complied .

It was something like :- 

If its green its out of date .

Unless it has 24 amendments

Or you can have the Yellow one  C/w 12 amendments

Or the Red one  C/w  6 amendments

Or throw those away and replace with the Blue book .

 

[sprocketflup]

Ive been wondering if there isn't some sort of legal challenge that can be put against the IET, cant remember who said it but im sure I was told by someone 'in the know ; )' that they start work on the next amendment as soon as the current one is released.

That is blatant profiteering. And the counter argument would be of course "Its all done in the interest of electrical safety" in which case why are we paying £80 for a book that can be printed for a fraction of that

I was getting to the point of asking TEFs legal beagle, if he strays across this thread Id be interested to know

 

[kerching]

And as i have posted elsewhere.....what happens if you use a value in the book, the value is wrong, someone gets hurt or something gets damaged WHO is to blame?

After all, you did what the book said, how would you know the book was wrong?

 

[Andy™]

isnt it 2 amendments then a new edition?

 

[Murdoch]

As BS 7671 isn't statutory can't we just ignore the latest updates? lol

 

[ProDave]

The only "exploitation" is Prat Pee and the associated "need" to join a scam. That then carries the associated "need" for the most up to date regs book, calibration certificates etc etc.

Before Prat Pee (I won't mention exemptions) you just got a new book every now and then, so long as you were familiar with updates nobody bothered,

 

[Murdoch]

Part P was conceived under the Gordon Brown school of creating jobs, for civil servants and alike, and spreading the cost around as many people as possible.

If, and I say IF it was policed and enforced it wouldn't be so bad, but to have to pay a scam, buy the regs books etc on a regular basis AND nothing gets done about all the cow boys then its a huge pxss take.

 

[steptoe]

I'll soon be able to tell you if being a part of a scam deems you competent in law,

But, I very much doubt the scam will turn up to state this as a fact. 

 

[Sharpend]

Meeting? Pray tell??

 

[steptoe]

Apparently NICEIC state in their bumf somewhere that being a member only means you have met their membership criteria, NOT that you are competent,

I'm still trying to find the actual clause where they say this,

NO scam would ever state it's members are competent, that would leave them wide open to a multitude of claims. 

 

[apprentice87]

The IET owe everyone a duty of care. If you used the info in the book and it was found to be incorrect, you could sue them and they would lose..

Part of the thing is you see, they know that electricians rely on the information they publish, and in fact, complying with what they state in their book can be used as a defence in court in cases involving things like negligence, and in showing that you are "innocent" if you like, in the event you were prosecuted under the eawr and such like. It states as much in the front of the book...

Say a car manufacturer said that you had to do the wheel nuts up to 200ft/lbs. You do this, and the wheels fall off, obviously they would be liable

Now, i know it could be [and often is] said that the regs are not "law" and are just "guidance" or advice on good practice, but this is quite wrong....

Consider this. Part "P"; You will NOT get your building regs approval UNLESS you design, install and test an installation to BS7671. That is the LAW. It clearly states in the building regs that; "

General

1.1
Electrical installations should be designed and installed in accordance with[SIZE=12pt] BS 7671:2008[/SIZE] incorporating Amendment No 1:2011
 
If you need part "P" aproval, then you will have to follow thr regs
 
So, Seems to me the IET are in BIG trouble if their information is incorrect. They would not be able to say that :you did not HAVE to read our book or heed or "advice", for it is more than advice, in the case of dwellings, it is basicly compulsory
 
john...

 

[ProDave]

Apparently NICEIC state in their bumf somewhere that being a member only means you have met their membership criteria, NOT that you are competent,

Yet they are called competent persons schemes.

Doesn't Trades descriptions have something to say about that?

 

[kerching]

As the part P,shirker above says!

How can they run a "competent persons scheme" if they have NO measure of competence?

Surely they don't just take your money and run?

 

[Andy™]

The IET owe everyone a duty of care. If you used the info in the book and it was found to be incorrect, you could sue them and they would lose..

Part of the thing is you see, they know that electricians rely on the information they publish, and in fact, complying with what they state in their book can be used as a defence in court in cases involving things like negligence, and in showing that you are "innocent" if you like, in the event you were prosecuted under the eawr and such like. It states as much in the front of the book...

Say a car manufacturer said that you had to do the wheel nuts up to 200ft/lbs. You do this, and the wheels fall off, obviously they would be liable

Now, i know it could be [and often is] said that the regs are not "law" and are just "guidance" or advice on good practice, but this is quite wrong....

Consider this. Part "P"; You will NOT get your building regs approval UNLESS you design, install and test an installation to BS7671. That is the LAW. It clearly states in the building regs that; "

General

1.1
Electrical installations should be designed and installed in accordance with[SIZE=12pt] BS 7671:2008[/SIZE] incorporating Amendment No 1:2011
 
If you need part "P" aproval, then you will have to follow thr regs
 
So, Seems to me the IET are in BIG trouble if their information is incorrect. They would not be able to say that :you did not HAVE to read our book or heed or "advice", for it is more than advice, in the case of dwellings, it is basicly compulsory
 
john...

so, if IET owe duty of care and its wrong etc etc, does that apply to LABC too, in that they are instructing you to use a dodgy book?

and i cant remember that last time i used a torque wrench on wheel nuts... usually to 'tight enough' with a breaker bar...

 

[Evans Electric]

Just had another glance at the additional merchandise .  

BYB                                   @ £69.99

NICEIC   OSG                    @ £24

IEE    OSG                         @£27

BYB +Insp/test/cert            @85

8 different Guidance books    @£29  ea

Domestic PIR Book                 @£ 24

Insp test cert  book                 @ £24

From the helpline book            @ £21

Snags & solutions                   @ £ 18.50     X 5 

20 X EIC Certs                        @ £ 14

20 X  EICR                              @ £14

Domestic Inst. Certs                @ £16.50

Domestic EICR                         @ £14

Minor works                             @ £ 14

 

[NozSpark]

I got my connections mag through the post today..... The whole lot is now in my recycling bin

 

[kerching]

Well for what it is worth, in my opinion, the "from the helpline" book is the best that money can buy

The info in it is, i assume, taken from the connections magazine

FFS have you read the "supposed questions"!!!.....if you are asking those questions then you need to reconsider your career path

 

[Andy™]

I got my connections mag through the post today..... The whole lot is now in my recycling bin

mine went into the fire... after being used as a 'clean' area on the bench to put some parts on...

 

[apprentice87]

Hi Andy,

Not sure about the LABC.. They would be in the same boat as the rest of you... Say they took it upon themselves to issue a "completion cert" based on having an installation inspected and signed off by one of the electricians they THEMSELVES employ in the case of a DIY or "none scam member" installation, what then if a purchaser buys the house in good faith, has an EICR, one of you lot fail it on grounds of Zs too high for a type of breaker, then they go back to the building regs lot and go potty!!! be interesting then! Be even more interesting if the place burnt down... Wonder what other mistakes are in the book??

john....

 

[Evans Electric]

I would guess that their asses are adequately  covered .

My guess is ....................it is  the responsibility of the installer to check everything in whole universe before handing the job over.