Cpc As Interlink On Smoke Alarm Circuit....what Would You Do?

[flyingspark]

Testing a 3 story house today prior to a board change, found smoke alarm circuit has been installed in twin and earth, and cpc has been used as interlink. Due to return tomorrow morning to change the board, and not sure which option to take.

Would you disconnect or record observation & recommended disconnect on cert to smoke alarm circuit if customer declines remedial work?

What is worse, connecting an incorrectly installed and potentially dangerous circuit, or not re-connecting and leaving the property with no smoke alarms?

Customer has already declined meter tails upgrade from 10mm csa

What would you do?

 

[Adrian]

Issue unsatisfactory condition report and say the board will be changed when the  C1 and C2 codes  have been corrected 

 

[ProDave]

The meter tails issue is of more concern. I would not change a CU and leave it on 10mm tails.

To be honest, that's not something I ever ask a customer. If doing a CU change I change the tails if they need upgrading and build it into my quote. I don't give them a tick list of what would they like.

And if the DNO's tails (between head and meter) are also substandard I phone the DNO and advise them.

 

[M107]

+1 Dave

As for the smokes disconnect the interlink & note on cert, at least the smokes will still work but just not via interlink. Give customer a quote to replace with Aico RF interlink units.

 

[ProDave]

+1 to the above. Better they work without interlink than not work at all.

and restore the CPC to being a CPC.

 

[Jono Pashley]

+1 to the above. Better they work without interlink than not work at all.

and restore the CPC to being a CPC.

Exactly my thoughts. Makes you wonder what goes through peoples minds when they do lash ups like that...

 

[m4tty]

I personally would leave it as is and note on cert. I'd rather have a live Cpc in 'the crucial 1 minute' it's ever going to be used may save a life. I'd sleep better if it was left connected. Legally wrong be sits better morally to me.

 

[Jono Pashley]

Circuit has no cpc in that scenario tho, would rather they lost the interlink still worked independantly and had a cpc through the circuit.

 

[Steve3948]

Offer to fit Radio Bases.

 

[Andy™]

Circuit has no cpc in that scenario tho, would rather they lost the interlink still worked independantly and had a cpc through the circuit.

smoke detectors are most likely DI and wont need an earth anyway

personally, id go with M107 and disconnect interlink

 

[Jono Pashley]

smoke detectors are most likely DI and wont need an earth anyway

personally, id go with M107 and disconnect interlink

the detectors being DI or not doesnt mean a thing the cable doesnt contain a earth.

 

[Andy™]

the detectors being DI or not doesnt mean a thing the cable doesnt contain a earth.

yes, but at least they dont actually need an earth that isnt there at the moment. still dodgy, but it could be worse

 

[wozz]

it wont be 'live' as its on a 9v signal for the interlink i believe.  

Smokes are Di, would you disconnect a lighting circuit of all class 2 accessories with no CPC? 

 

[kme]

Depends on the smokies in question.

Some have an LV signal - Others are full 230V signalling.

I wouldn`t be happy with them being left "as they are". swap it back to a CPC, or leave `em disconnected.

+1 to the tails comments - don`t ASK people if they want things done that HAVE to be done - they`re "part & parcel" of the quoted work. End of.

 

[steptoe]

isnt it a specific reg that prohibits a CPC from being used as a live under ANY circumstances?

I deffo wouldnt deviate and have the possibility of a death on my hands when someone decides they are going to 'borrow an earth' from the smokes to bond the bath with.

 

[wozz]

Depends on the smokies in question.

Some have an LV signal - Others are full 230V signalling.

I wouldn`t be happy with them being left "as they are". swap it back to a CPC, or leave `em disconnected.

+1 to the tails comments - don`t ASK people if they want things done that HAVE to be done - they`re "part & parcel" of the quoted work. End of.

So how does the interlink work when the mains power is removed and its just running on battery?

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

A vast majority of 230v smokes have battery back-up either standard 9v or a lithium pack of some sort...

As Wozz points out if the interlink signal is able to operate while the smokes are in battery back up mode..

Then the interlink cannot be a 230v signal...

If the interlkink is only a mains operation feature then could be 230v..

but that rather defeats the object of having mains power-battery-back-up IMHO!!!

If we go down the line of manufactures instructions I know Aico specifically show using 3core&E for hard wired interconnected devices..

and IIRC their units have a place to terminate the CPC to continue the earth through even though they are DI units.

Either way if it is 230v AC or a 9v DC signal..

The conductor it travels down should be insulated along its length as either 

a) if at 230v it is a live part and must be insulated or out of reach etc...  416.x.x

b) if at 9v (or similar) it is mixed voltages in the same cable and conductors should be insulated to the level of the highest voltage present! 528.1 (ii)

So I would make the CPC back to become a CPC and leave the smoke as standalone units..

give the customer a quote for....

(i) providing new hard wire interconnection

(ii) or radio link units...

(iii) or loads more standalone lithium battery units  (bit like what the fire brigade fit in old dears houses.. I think for free!!)

There are Zillions of houses without interlinked alarms..

Better have wiring that complies with BS7671 and standalone than not at all !

 

[apprentice87]

Hi all, If i met a punter that whinged about having new tails, i would just walk away.. If they have that sort of attitude before you have even started, what they going to be like when you want paying??

john..

 

[binky]

Totally agree with apprentice87, have done jobs like this with customers who are daft twots, usually ends in arguments and bad feelings

 

[soulman]

When making a query to the tech helpline with regards to tails, on consumer change (domestic).  The service head fuse was 60A, they said I still had to upgrade the tails to 25mm regardless.