DNO connecting up question

[Cirrus]

I had a look at a job today where the DNO have pulled in a new supply to feed two properties. Both properties were wired in the 1940's and have no bonding in place etc. The DNO is installing a PME earthing system and I have been asked to 'keep the power on' to both houses (one lived in and one empty) until the owner gets us to rewire them in a few weeks. I have insisted at the very least that I fit a 30mA RCD up front as the original installation concerns me a little. There is no way I can run in main eq. bonding until the rewire but I am surprised the DNO isn't asking the householder for an electrical installation cert or EICR prior to connecting up - something I have had to supply before. What would you guys do?

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

If there are no extraneous earth paths then no eq bonding is needed ; \

 

[Cirrus]

But there are water and gas services and pipe work in the houses

 

[NozSpark]

Maybe test the water and gas to see if they are actually extraneous?

This would be a C2 on an EICR so you could issue them with a danger notice and you should not continue with any electrical work

 

[ProDave]

If you are going to be rewiring soon anyway, can you not just lash up the earth bonding, even if it's just temporary, fixed on the surface looking awfull, and re connect existing cu via stand alone RCD just to "keep power on"

The when you do the rewire and have the floorboards up, re route the earth bonding cable properly.

What's happening while you ponder this issue? are they sitting there in the dark?

 

[batty]

I would do as Dave says you can't really not bond if its TNCS. 1940's houses are very likely to have metal services unless they have been replaced.

 

[Cirrus]

If you are going to be rewiring soon anyway, can you not just lash up the earth bonding, even if it's just temporary, fixed on the surface looking awfull, and re connect existing cu via stand alone RCD just to "keep power on" The when you do the rewire and have the floorboards up, re route the earth bonding cable properly.

What's happening while you ponder this issue? are they sitting there in the dark?

No, they asked me to go in at the same time the DNO was completing the switch from TT to PME (taking down the overhead cables). Bonding wasn't possible so I installed a 40A/30mA RCD up front to at least offer some protection. Ultimately, anything I did was better than what they had - 2.5mm main earth to a spike with a Ra running into hundreds of ohms and circuits without complete earths etc. Will just have to get in and rewire asap!

 

[ProDave]

I've never understood this overhead cable and PME association. My last house was overhead supply and PME earth. All that meant was the neutral, earthed at the transformer star point, was conveyed to the house and used as an earth via 2 overhead wires. No different to two underground wires (concentric) really.

But I would still have lashed up some form of temporary bonding until the rewire was done. Even if you bent the rules and bonded the pipework at the nearest point to the CU rather than where it enters the property it would have at least been bonded and better than not bonded (I'm willing to bet there won't be any plastic pipe in this house, just copper, or possibily galvanised steel)

And I would have fitted a higher rating RCD than 40A

Just my thoughts. Just get that rewire done ASAP then it will all be alright.

 

[apprentice87]

Hi Cirrus,

I would be very careful if i were you.......The owner SAYS he will have it all rewired soon, but there is a fair old chance that once the DNO have gone away he will not bother.....

Where will you be then...... Having a right old panic, because you know full well that the wiring whilst maybe not dangerous, [remembering that just cos it does not comply with the latest regs is irrelevant] is certainly less than desirable. You say yourself that the original installation concerns you somewhat...

Why did the owner not have them rewired a few weeks in advance, all ready for the nice shiney new supply to arrive????

Be careful.... If he does not bother having them rewired and something goes wrong, the very first thing he will say is "I am not an electrician, i paid that nice Cirrus to connect them up, I just left it up to him"

Hmmmmm.... Think about it...

john..

 

[ProDave]

Hi Cirrus,I would be very careful if i were you.......The owner SAYS he will have it all rewired soon, but there is a fair old chance that once the DNO have gone away he will not bother.....

Wise words.

I fell into a similar "trap" not long after I started out on my own.

An old, near derelict bungalow, that most would have treated as a building plot, but someone bought it and wanted to move in. The old wiring had been condemned and the DNO had disconnected the supply.

So I rewired it completely. The owner wanted the new CU in a cupboard but the supply entered above the front door and that's where the meter and old CU was.

The DNO came and re connected the supply and I made a temporary connection in 10mm t&e from the supply head to the new CU and the DNO gave a quote to relocate the incoming supply into the same cupboard.

To this day I don't think he ever got the supply moved and i'll bet it's still working off that bit of 10mm t&e.

Never again.

 

[Cirrus]

Valid points. The reason the rewire has not been done on both properties yet is that they are subject to probate and title and funds are due to pass in a short while (days). I will ensure that paperwork is in place to state that my work is purely temporary with a view to rewiring in the next 4 weeks. It is a tricky one but I have introduced earthing (there were no cpc's connected up) and placed an RCD up front. Basically I have done nothing but slightly 'improve' on what was there to start and ok, not an ideal scenario from our professional viewpoint but it is one of those sticky wickets where the customer has the right to only insist on so much here and now. Sometimes it can be impossible to cover off all bases.

Dave, a 40A RCD is more than sufficient - there are only two circuits in the one property (power and lights).

 

[philbas]

I think the answer is to leave a paper trail, send recomendations, keep copys etc, thenwhen it blows up you have proof you warned them

 

[apprentice87]

Hi Cirrus,

From what you say, i think you have handled things perfectly!!!! Well done you I say!!!

john..

 

[steptoe]

remember and date your certs 30days until next inspection due.