Downlight Opinion

[whazza2]

Hi,

Client has bought some 240v downlights in their kitchen, which are not fire rated and would like me to install. However, a suspended ceiling has been put in, approx 4" below the original ceiling.

How would I go about this?

Concerned that by drilling the hole in the new ceiling, then drilling a hole in the original ceiling is going to create a fire hazard. By not distrubing the old ceiling, the original ceiling may get too hot and may be difficult to fit.

Any ideas would be grateful

 

[sparkytim]

If the 4" clearence is ok for depth required by fittings you will not need to touch the original ceiling so fire barrier between floors will not be disturbed

 

[m4tty]

+1 what he says ^^

 

[whazza2]

Even if the fitting is really close to the original ceiling?

Does that mean the lights do not need to be fire rated?

 

[m4tty]

You only need to fit fire rated lights if you break the fire barrier but you have the original ceiling above your false ceiling which is the fire barrier. Hth

 

[whazza2]

Ideal, thanks

Only other think that concerns me, is if the lights are too close to the original ceiling, or is this nothing to be worried about?

 

[Manator]

Fire rated downlights do not give off less heat, they just allow a seal equivalent to the fire rating of the fixture to hold the spread of fire.

If heat is going to be the main problem then the use of dicloric? spelling? lamps or LED would be better options but would not prevent user changes in the future.

 

[m4tty]

If you were putting downlighters in the original ceiling then the downlighter holes that you cut out the plasterboard is the break in the fire barrier. Which is when you use fire rated downlighters because in a fire the intumescent on the fitting will melt creating a fire barrier. I'm rubbish at explaining but hope this helps

 

[sparkytim]

+1

Fire rated fittings do not stop heat damage from the fitting itself if in-correctly installed. The Fire rated type just stop a fire from the room BELOW getting thru the hole to the floor above by sealing the hole in the event of a fire.

 

[NozSpark]

It's not the fire barrier properties of the fitting that concerns building regs,,,

there's also the acoustic barrier to consider!

 

[sellers]

It's not the fire barrier properties of the fitting that concerns building regs,,,there's also the acoustic barrier to consider!

Pardon?

:innocent

 

[ianmacd]

What is the old cieling made up from? if its missing plaster over exposed larves then I would suggest not going near it as they will be extremly flamable. Also, do not assume the old cieling is fire rated or complete. If you breech a fire rated surface you need to rectify that (likewise with part E and L1).

 

[green-hornet]

It would be highly unlikely to be a fire barrier if domestic.

Downlighters will produce heat, the only way to fit them to cover your backside is to fit according to the manufacturers instructions, this will include cut out size, minimum distance from other surfaces etc etc.

I often try to advise against the installation of down lights if I doubt the fitting arrangements.

 

[binky]

A standard domestic house is one fire unit, ergo kitchen ceiling isn't fire rated anyway, hence you don't see builders putting up fire rated plasterboard even in new builds.

My advice would be to watch for joists - don't get too close and fit CFLs if you are really concerned about heat from the fitting.

 

[PaulSC]

+1 as Binky said.

A typical house is considered one fire compartment, unless there's an integral garage which is then classed as a seperate fire compartment. You would only need fire rated units if bridging from one fire compartment to the other (which is probably unlikely).

A lot of the fuss made about fire rated units probably came from the manufacturers or more likely the makers of those stupid fire hoods. A few 60mm holes will not make a house any less safe in terms of fire safety as you have a flippin' great hole between both floors for your stairs!

Had some info from Elecsa last year about installing downlights (both ELV & LV) and they reckon forensic evidence points to the source of fires from these types of fittings comes from them being placed too close to wooden joists above the units. As others have pointed out, if your worried, go for LED or CFL.

 

[Stevie h]

Elecsa tech said exact same thing as Binky and Paul when I questioned them on this subject , no need for fire rated spots in a standard 2 storey house .

Ste

 

[binky]

Good - now go to wholsalers and demand they re-stock proper downlighters instead of trying to flog overpriced fire rated crip :red card . It firkin annoys me bad day explode

 

[batty]

Fire rated downlights do not give off less heat, they just allow a seal equivalent to the fire rating of the fixture to hold the spread of fire.If heat is going to be the main problem then the use of dicloric? spelling? lamps or LED would be better options but would not prevent user changes in the future.

Should be Alutech not dichroic as a lot of heat goes back as well as forward with dichroics.

---------- AUTO MERGE Post added at 23:46 ---------- Previous post was at 23:44 ----------

A standard domestic house is one fire unit, ergo kitchen ceiling isn't fire rated anyway, hence you don't see builders putting up fire rated plasterboard even in new builds.My advice would be to watch for joists - don't get too close and fit CFLs if you are really concerned about heat from the fitting.

I would disagree with this any plasterboard ceiling has a fire rating even if its only 1/2 an hour.

 

[ProDave]

+1 as Binky said.A typical house is considered one fire compartment, unless there's an integral garage which is then classed as a seperate fire compartment. You would only need fire rated units if bridging from one fire compartment to the other (which is probably unlikely).

Also a 3 storey house (either built as 3 storey, or a loft conversion done later) requires fire proof ceilings and fire doors to stairwell, so on a 3 storey house you would have to use fire rated downlights.