econ7 / identifying heaters

[elecnewbie]

Hello, I'm hoping someone can answer my econ7-related questions. I've always used gas central heating, but just moved to electricity-only flat. With hortsmann econ7 quartz water heater (with a timer that doesn't seem changeable). But seems to be working OK, and I know I have lower elec rate 7 hours at night and a higher rate the other 14 hours.

**My question is what kind of wall heaters do I have? See attached pictures.** The landlord says he doesn't know. All I can find is "NOBO" but no model number or serial number. Without this, I can't find an instruction manual online for the thermostat and red/green levers.

Are they storage heaters somehow connected to the econ7 heating system? or are they just regular heaters? If regular heaters, I should probably switch to a single rate of electricity, right? Because they won't charge overnight on cheaper elec rate, so that won't save me any money... I'd appreciate the help. My searching online hasn't helped. Thank you!

PS I tried to attach 2 images (insert other media)  but couldn't get it to work

 

[elecnewbie]

https://ibb.co/gGQv9v

https://ibb.co/jbhNNF

 links to 2 heater pics now posted

 

[Lurch]

They are just panel heaters.

 

[ProDave]

Are they the only heaters?  It is quite common to have storage heaters in the main rooms, and panel heaters in the bedrooms (you only need heat in a bedroom overnight, so most of the time a bedroom panel heater is on it will be at the cheap rate)

 

[elecnewbie]

OK, thanks for the responses. They are the only heaters. Pictures are of the panel heater in hallway. There's a bigger-sized panel in the bedroom, same exact kind of heater. Nothing at all in the kitchen/living room. So my water is being heated at night on the econ7 dual tariff, but using these heaters outside of 7 overnight hours will be quite expensive. Kinda wish I'd known that before renting the place. But thanks for your help!

 

[rapparee]

Nøbo are a brand owned by Glen Dimplex Nordic mostly marketed in the Scandinavian countries, I'm surprised to see them.

 

[Lurch]

I've seen them a few times, nothing new though, mostly late 80's/early 90's era installations.

 

[ProDave]

So what heats your living room and kitchen then? I'll bet there used to be storage heaters in there.

There was a fad a while back or replacing storage heaters with posh fancy panel heaters claiming they were more "efficient" than other sorts of panel heater. Shame that is bull as all panel heaters are 100% efficient.

 

[Lurch]

There was a fad a while back or replacing storage heaters with posh fancy panel heaters claiming they were more "efficient" than other sorts of panel heater. Shame that is bull as all panel heaters are 100% efficient.

It wasn't about the heater itself being more efficient, it was the overall process being more efficient. Things like anticipated set points and variable heat outputs, weather compensation etc,

 

[rapparee]

It wasn't about the heater itself being more efficient, it was the overall process being more efficient. Things like anticipated set points and variable heat outputs, weather compensation etc,

Yes. We have a panel heater that can "sense" when a window or door is opened and will automatically turn itself off.

 

[rapparee]

I've seen them a few times, nothing new though, mostly late 80's/early 90's era installations.

That makes sense, they were still independent then. Dimplex only bought over Nobø and Siemens heating and merged the two in the early 2000s. They are now moving that production to Ireland later this year.

Our engineers are surprised that there is actually a 400v heater for the Swedish domestic market. I will have the joy of setting up the test rig for that. It'll probably be a low volume PITA to produce.

@misssweden is this a common thing? Do you have 3 phase sockets in your homes.

 

[Andy™]

@missswedenOur engineers are surprised that there is actually a 400v heater for the Swedish domestic market. I will have the joy of setting up the test rig for that. It'll probably be a low volume PITA to produce.

hows that one work? 1 element between 2 phases or 3 elements between 3 phases?

 

[Lurch]

@misssweden is this a common thing? Do you have 3 phase sockets in your homes.

There are 3 phase supplies to most homes, although the 3 phase appliances are usually hardwired and all sockets are single phase. Electric cookers and larger water heaters are usually 3 phase.

 

[rapparee]

hows that one work? 1 element between 2 phases or 3 elements between 3 phases?

I don't know yet.

 

[elecnewbie]

I've seen them a few times, nothing new though, mostly late 80's/early 90's era installations.

Lurch, yes that makes sense, as I’m told this block of flats was built early/mid-90s. So I guess these are the original heaters.

 

[elecnewbie]

So what heats your living room and kitchen then? I'll bet there used to be storage heaters in there.

There was a fad a while back or replacing storage heaters with posh fancy panel heaters claiming they were more "efficient" than other sorts of panel heater. Shame that is bull as all panel heaters are 100% efficient.

ProDave, what heats my living room/kitchen? Good question! I guess I will find out come winter if the hallway panel can somehow warm the living room. I’m hoping getting a dehumidifier would take the damp out of the air and help somewhat.. There is a switch fuse socket on one wall in living room that connects to nothing, so maybe there was a storage heater there.

 

[elecnewbie]

It wasn't about the heater itself being more efficient, it was the overall process being more efficient. Things like anticipated set points and variable heat outputs, weather compensation etc,

But aren't storage heaters more efficient than panel heaters in terms of cost-saving? Excuse my ignorance, maybe that's what you mean by the set points, variable heat, etc. But don't storage heaters heat up overnight with lower-rate electricity and panel heaters do not?

Yes. We have a panel heater that can "sense" when a window or door is opened and will automatically turn itself off.

My panel heaters appear to have a thermostat with green and red levers. Again, I can’t find online the model of NOBO panel heater I have & so can’t find a manual online, but it should automatically turn itself on/off according to that. I’ll just experiment.

 

[Lurch]

But aren't storage heaters more efficient than panel heaters in terms of cost-saving? Excuse my ignorance, maybe that's what you mean by the set points, variable heat, etc. But don't storage heaters heat up overnight with lower-rate electricity and panel heaters do not?

They used to be, in that old panel heaters like yours were very basic and the thermostats weren't terribly accurate. Storage heaters were more convenient and it took the load of the network in the daytime. Nowadays the panel heaters are more efficient in that they will use less power over a period of time, so yours might come on and stay on for 3 hours and the stat might keep the place to +/- 10°C. A newer unit with better controls might only have the heater on for half that time as the thermostat might have some sort of intelligence built in and also keep the placer closer to your set point. Overall there's not much in it nowadays. If I had electric heating I'd rather have the panel heaters for convenience. Just pricing up some flats and they are all panel heaters throughout.

 

[ProDave]

The "conversion" that baffles me is when people rip out the storage heaters and panel heaters from an all electric house, and put in wet central heating with radiators fed from an electric boiler. So using peak rate electricity to heat water to heat a room. There is no way that can be more eficcient than just using a panel heater. (better looking yes)

 

[Lurch]

There is no way that can be more eficcient than just using a panel heater.

Again, it is not always about 'most efficient'. Some people like the convenience of a wet system, I personally wouldn't bother with electric heaters in my house if I was all electric, I would also go for the electric boiler. People who don;t do what I would do though don't "baffle me", sometimes some people do things differently. Bit like people who sit in a room in near pitch black because it is more efficient than turning the lights on, (probably what you do too). Turning the lights on so you can see is not baffling, it;s just what people do.