Electricians Selling Themselves Short

[Manator]

Time and time again we see that electricians in order to keep work often sell themselves short. For an example see http://talk.electricianforum.co.uk/topic/23793-eicr/

Before Part P came into effect most work was carried out by qualified time served electricians and the pay structure reflected the worth. We use to do new build domestics each house was charged in the order of around £2,500, after Part P this dwindled to less than £1500.

Then the builder decided to go on the short course and do away with the qualified spark, and so we now compete with ill informed sadly lacking tradesmen who will do a job for beer money.

Today for instance I have ripped out a dental surgery which had almost every socket spurred from another, even the intruder alarm was linked to a circuit not identified. I pulled out 12 junction boxes and around 25m of 2.5 twin and earth.

What made me laugh was when the surgery manager gave me the telephone number of the handyman who did the electrics, simply because he knows the installation inside out!!

God help us over the next ten years, perhaps there will be no such title to describe a person allowed to work with electrics. Unless its handyman or general builder.

 

[Sharpend]

Unfortunately what you speak Manator is the truth of the real world of work. How many years have to pass before it is changed again?

 

[Sidewinder]

It's too late, it will never change, to coin a phrase from another, "its all about money not safety"!

There is huge doubt in my mind that the domestic market will EVER change back, and the light commercial & industrial are going the same way.

It will take deaths and huge financial losses in the commercial/industrial sector before it ever changes.

This is one of the major reasons I am steering my business away from the domestic/commercial/industrial installation sector into more specialised niche markets.

We'll keep doing enough to keep the AC status, but that is all.

 

[kerching]

Occasionally customers burst into flames when i tell them my day rate.  They are upset when i will not shift on price, apart from upwards...then they explode!

i smile sweetly, tell them they will get what they pay for, give them my card, and leave.

at least i can sleep,at night knowing that the vast majority of my work will,still be functioning in the morning and not smoking

just....asking my worth £

 

[ProDave]

I have never believed part pee would do any good, and I think it hasn't.  Though I still await some statistics comparing electrical safety between part pee and non part pee land.

Sometimes I am sure some of you think I price my work too low. But the reality is I live in a cheaper part of the UK where living costs (mainly due to lower housing cost) are lower, and wages are lower.  But simply, I price my work by the hour at a rate I can make a living out of, and add on travelling costs if more than a few miles.  I won't enter a bidding war with others to get work (though I was miffed at losing out a new build because the other quote was £200 lower, in that case I would have matched it if given the chance)

So when I say I can do an EICR for £150, that gives me 6 hours on site. That's plenty to properly test an average house thoroughly. but many of you will say it's too cheap. 

Yes we have all seen carp work. We have all seen EICR's with fictitious results (the most notable I found was a local British Legion club I tested, and I think I made a thread about how the previous, NICEIC eicr had been a complete work of fiction)

The real problem, is nobody inspects our work at a day to day level. Yes all you scam members have an annual assessment,  but that's just a couple of selected jobs. The rest of the year you could be working like a cowboy, and nobody would know.

I don't know the answer. all I know is when I started you did an apprenticeship before you called yourself an electrician. Now a 5 week course is all some think you need. THAT is the root of why standards have slipped. And I'm afraid to say, I blame part P and the "need" to join a scam to sign of part P work, which created the need for "qualifications" and created the 5 week courses to fill that need.

Now if the scam providers would only let you join their club with proper qualifications, then we might not be in this mess.

Part of me, rather cynically perhaps, says well it won't be that many years (I hope) before I can retire. So just go with the flow and carry on as best I can until I'm able to hang up my megger for good. 

 

[Sidewinder]

Dave,

How long does it take you to complete the paperwork for a 6 hr on site EICR?

Because, this will dilute your achievable rate accordingly.

Now for 6 hrs on site for a PIR, I would expect an hour or 2 write up so that would be 7 - 8 hrs chargeable, at the moment that would be between £315 & £360, and I have too much work to cope with!

On top of this would be travel time & mileage which would increase this even more!

 

[Manator]

My daughter is the manager at an NHS operated old folks home, she was asked to get three quotes for an EICR. Myself and another company nearby gave quotes in the region of £500. The lower quote was taken up at £150. My daughter asked me why they had to turn the gas and water off whilst they did the testing?

She also told me that they had to go to the chippy to provide meals for the residents whilst the testing was ongoing.

I did get a look at the report and just laughed at the results.

 

[ProDave]

That says it all Manator.

As long as the bit of paper they get says "Satisfactory" they have covered their aris, and "job done"

And it will carry on like that until an accident happens, only then will the brown smelly stuff hit the rotating air moving device.

P.S just why DID they turn the water and gas off for an eicr?

 

[Manator]

That says it all Manator.

As long as the bit of paper they get says "Satisfactory" they have covered their aris, and "job done"

And it will carry on like that until an accident happens, only then will the brown smelly stuff hit the rotating air moving device.

P.S just why DID they turn the water and gas off for an eicr?

I have no idea Dave, I was just as baffled when she called me to ask why.

 

[NozSpark]

TBH I think that people think we turn them off because we ask to see them...not realising that we are looking for bonds

But then again I have heard of them being turned off as well.... God knows why???????

 

[kerching]

 Why turn off the Gas and Water?

simples really.......they are doing a leakage test!

well go,on then, come up with a better answer

 

[kerching]

Ah yes......the see you next tuesday paradox.   Similar, but not identical to,  ' they wait all thursday ". And " King Nigel of Belgium's Son"

prob same twonks as did the report i sawrecently

earth loop.............infinity

IPSCC..................n/a

RCD trip times......yes

 Continuity to water bond....satisfactory ( actually no bond to water)

just.....being too critical maybe?

 

[kerching]

Nothing changes :slap

I  am actually a very laid back, placid, patient and, some would say, tolerant individual.

some would liken me to a cuddly kitten/ puppy type of soul!

unfortunately this persona often carries a flame thrower and machete in case a fecking twonk is encountered by chance!

other than that, patience is my middle name

 

[Chewbacca]

Go kill :slap

 

[Theorysparky]

I just get pee'd off with it

get called to a rented property a week ago where the tenant got an electric shock plugging his telly in,,,,he spent a few hours in A+E whether he needed to or not that's not for me to say but it scared him.

the socket L+N wrong way round and the socket was on its side because it was too low to the floor

I put my martindale in all the sockets and find earth faults double check with my tester P-E  faults on some others

couldn't find the fault everything in spurs ,,,,,blanked the faulty ones  and screwed a light switch patress box to the wall !!!

P S  one single socket in each of the bedrooms !!! and light run in 2.5 mm t+e from switch to fitting no sign of loop in / out

quoted for a fix to MY standards

£1500 for socket rewire with additions   or the whole lot £3000 (high price but the landlord was taking the urine)

also I stated the property was not fit for the rental market,,,,knowing the council requirements in this area

comes back saying too hi cant afford it  ,,,,,,,,, big big house which you would not find in Asia :innocent

so trunking for the sockets  chipboard floors  £900

too expensive ,,,,,,, I think he is getting a handy man in !!!

cant wait to see it !!!

 

[M107]

Ooooh I could add to this thread.......but not yet for reasons I cant go into here.

 

[ProDave]

Up here they have just introduced a requirement for all landlords to provide a "tenant information pack"

I probably won't get to see what that entails until our rented house changes tenant, but I would LIKE to think it must include an up to date EICR and an up to date gas certificate (if there is any gas)

If not, then that's one huge missed opportunity to improve electrical safety.

EDIT:  Here's the new Tenant Information Pack http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Resource/0041/00413146.pdf

It does suggest you have an eicr to prove electrical safety, but does not go as far as insisting you provide one.