Fire Plan For Commercial Property - Help!

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kme

kme

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So - we`re in the middle of a refurb on a cafe, with 2 bedsit-type things above.

There is an architect involved, and BC

Now I`d `phoned a local fire company last week, asking for a spec. for the property ( I don`t consider myself experienced in this type of property, to specify the system. I`ll happily install it, just don`t want / haven`t time / aren`t comfortable with the design section.)

They said "ok"; came out & looked around. When I spoke to them this morning, they decided that they don`t actually specify alarm systems - FFS!!!!! Dunno what he came out to do then, cos I didn`t need anything else from them!

I have the architects drawings in PDF, including the fire compartmentation plans. I think I know what I need to do - but not certain.

Any ideas?

Thanks

Martyn

 
The fire safety officer does not now get involved like they used to do, its all down to risk assessment and liability.

If you use a regular supplier they often do a free design and commission service. If not e mail me the pdf or dwg files and I will have a look for you KME.

 
Don't spec the system unless you have PII to cover your designing the system & you can prove your competence to do this in a Court of Law.

Trust me, IF it goes wrong and people die, the FRS WILL come after the designer, they already have elsewhere in the country, and I have heard through my other channels, that this is their intent in the future.

You need to get the client to sort it, it is their responsibility under the RRFSO, really.

Realistically it should be done under CDM as the property is designed etc. and the client decides on their usage pattern.

If you need someone, I may be able to rustle someone up, but not at short notice.

 
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I don`t use a regular supplier Manator :( - I don`t normally get involved in this side of it - for the reasons snakey outlined above.........

BUT, this client has left the whole of the electrical side in my hands - and they`re pushing the job forward rather quickly - they want to start boarding the ceilings before the end of the week - so I need to at least have the FP200 ( other brands are available ;) ) in by then.

I don`t care if another co. wants to do it all - but it needs to be done ASAP, or I`ll be getting the brown smelly stuff from the client, for the job being held up.

Manator - email on its way ;) Thanks

 
ok as a minimum  a link from cafe to bedsits is required, so any fire below warns tennants above. what are the fire escape arrangements for the bedsits?

 
binky said:
ok as a minimum  a link from cafe to bedsits is required, so any fire below warns tennants above. what are the fire escape arrangements for the bedsits?
Click to expand...
Now, even that can be wrong. Although I dont think its correct, if the dwellings have seperate street entrances some local councils dont want the fire alarms linked.

Stupidest one I had was in an old victorian house, Hmo registered self contained flats with the basement flat having its own street entrance and it was below the front door (no other exits) to the upper flats. The Labc made us disconnect the detector in the lower flat .

Other councils wanted sounders and detectors in the shop units and flats above.

 
Hi ive been doing fire alarm design since 2001, have you been given the type of fire alarm system required? Normally given by architect around Gloucestershire but may be different where you are. There's information on the site below for types of fire alarm system otherwise send me over some more details and I see if I can help.

http://www.safelincs.co.uk/pages/bs5839-6.html

 
binky said:
ok as a minimum  a link from cafe to bedsits is required, so any fire below warns tennants above. what are the fire escape arrangements for the bedsits?
Click to expand...
Right.

There are 2 bedsits above the cafe, with their own street access adjacent. The stairwell is 1 hr containment rated, as are the ceilings between cafe & bedsits.

I`ve currently wired for an L2 on the cafe, zoned - plus each bedsit will have  a LD3 heat & smoke. The hallway ( I think) needs to be a zone of the cafe; and sounder repeaters from the cafe system inside the exit door of each bedsit. Not certain on requirement of call point by hallway exit door.........

Apart from the stairwell, the other escape route is via tilt & turn windows to the front of the property.

There are also gas boilers located in the loft space above the bedsits - deffo smoke alarms in there, but undecided if they should be zoned for the cafe L2, or each bedsit`s LD3 system. 

switch10 said:
Hi ive been doing fire alarm design since 2001, have you been given the type of fire alarm system required? Normally given by architect around Gloucestershire but may be different where you are. There's information on the site below for types of fire alarm system otherwise send me over some more details and I see if I can help.

http://www.safelincs.co.uk/pages/bs5839-6.html
Click to expand...
Thanks Switch10. Unfortunately, your link is to guidance on 5839-6 ; whereas this system needs to comply with 5839-1. 

No-one has specified anything.......... :(

Architect reckons its outside his remit - he`s given us plans showing where he believes smoke and/or heat and/or CO alarms need to be located, but hasn`t gone into the CIE levels, or alarm grading requirements - but thank you for your interest.

At the moment, in order to not hold the job up, I`ve installed FP200 where it WILL be needed - don`t need anything else there at present.

 
i would have said single sounder link to bedsit hallways, nothing going back from bedsits to cafe. Idea being to wake sleeping residents.  Would also say link between bedsits - heat detector in entrance to each, and smoke on shared access ie stairs. within bedsits, simple smokes as individual units. I hasn't to add its been a while since I worked a lot with a fire alarm company.

 
Ok, my take on it, so take it or leave it although this is based on 4 or 5 recent installs very similar to your job.

L2 D2 system throughout with heat detectors only, over the doors to the common area but within each bedsit. Dependant on factors such as ceiling height and size heat detector or smoke also in cafe. Smokes everywhere else and sounders in all areas. Remember a minimum of 2 sounder circuits required.

In addition, the bedsits and or flats each have mains powered (with battery back up) interlinked smokes in all habitable rooms (not baths or kitchen) systems per dwelling, not interlinked between dwellings.

Although only 1 zone required per floor you would need either zone per flat/studio or a 'fire alarm activated' indicator outside each flat

 

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