floodlight issue

[gambit]

Hi

I require some much needed advice on this.  My electrician, further to his advice and recommendations for parts supplied and fitted three new led flood lights front back and side with sensors.  it has been about 14 months and the front one does not turn off anymore.  Detects moment stays on and stays on all night.  He agreed to replace this re fit it (2 years warranty from manufacturer.  Now, further to that I decided to just look around the side when it was pitch black and noticed the side one not come on at all.  I informed him of this saying 'I think' they could have failed at the same time i.e. being dud or poor quality lights.  He now refuses to fix the side one saying that as I presumed they failed the same time that it must be because they are on the same power line and failed due to a power surge (since he has taken advice).  He says he will not be able to go back to the manufacturer therefore and will have to charge me for additional costs of fitting the side one!!!

This is very unfair in my opinion.  The reason being that a month or so before the front one started having issues I noticed the side light not turning on through our bedroom window and made a comment to my wife that I was surprised because in January earlier in the year it kept coming on a lot due to high winds (trees moving a lot) and also very early sunset.  We therefore said it must be because the daylight hours had increased after three months and that side of the house seeing the most light meant it was likely staying on longer and we were not noticing.  We are therefore certain that it was not due to this and the side light had failed earlier.  In any event the side light does not come on at all.  The front one comes on and stays.  These are different issues surely that point to the quality of the product not what he believes!

Any help would be very much appreciated.

Kind regards

 

[Murdoch]

 He now refuses to fix the side one saying that as I presumed they failed the same time that it must be because they are on the same power line and failed due to a power surge (since he has taken advice).  He says he will not be able to go back to the manufacturer therefore and will have to charge me for additional costs of fitting the side one!!!

Tricky one this - just maintain you don't know when they failed.

I think said spark is being difficult so just ask him again by email or text and see what he says

FYI I only fit flood lights with 3 year warranties these days and normally accept that a few fail and I'll swap them for free - thats why we add mark up to the parts we supply - not only to cover the time in sourcing them, but also to cover the time to get replacements for failures and take the faulty ones back.

I wonder if he's lost the invoices and can't get replacements FOC?

 

[gambit]

Many thanks for replying so soon Murdoch.  So I have maintained that and explained in detail why we are certain one failed sooner.  He has not replied for seven days now.

I have offered to come to the manufacturer with him to explain (even though I have no contract with them) and even help with setting up his ladders as he says that takes him half an hour!  It took him around ten minutes to replace the failed one so it looks like trying to make a quick buck from the situation too.  We are very unhappy with this as we feel we have done nothing wrong.  At the very least he could replace all of them once after failing and then come up with this line.  He's very quick to just dismiss as it he wants to get out of doing the work!  I have remained very amiable with him but my patience is wearing thin and more so as we had a  house a few doors down last week have their car attempted at... in broad daylight!

Thanks

 

[kerching]

Do you know what make the fittings are?

some are so poor quality they only have a Vandoor guarantee....despite what it says on the tin

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

As Murdoch said, after far too many early failures giving grief to both me and my customers, I will now only supply fittings that have 3-year warranty minimum...

(and have been doing so for probably 4 or 5 years now!)

There is an abundance of cheap tat out there that fails prematurely...

Do you have copies of written invoice detailing the dates when they were fitted?

and manufactures make/model No specifying what warranty they offer..?

Any warranty replacements I do fit, do NOT include my labour for replacing something that has failed due to no fault of my own...

(Just as when I took a faulty kettle back to Waitrose, I only expected a free replacement item, NOT refund for my time & expense taking it back to the shop!)

Additionally I avoid supplying any lamps with built in PIR sensors..

ALWAYS supply separate Lamp and PIR..  

as more often that not it is the PIR that fails NOT the lamp itself!!

Your electrician "should" be keeping records of ALL purchases made as part of his business expenses in order to maintain evidence for his TAX records etc.. for HMRC..  

And these records would typically exceed any warranty periods! 

AND...  If he regularly uses specific suppliers, they are normally more than happy to refund/exchange faulty items as they know how much extra business they stand to lose if they don't keep him happy..

Although its not much help....

Your electrician sounds a bit of a cowboy to me!!

I am now in my 21st year of trading self employed with.. (possibly too..),  many happy customers who pass my name around...

and your bloke sounds dubious to say the least?

Guinness

 

[Evans Electric]

There ARE carp  Auto floods about  ...too many ....   I know quite a few sparks who have had so much trouble  they insist the client supplies them  .  

Just a point for discussion on this ...do we not , generally speaking , legally / automatically   offer a 12 month guarantee on materials & labour ?      Irrespective of any 2 or 3 year warranties ?      Just saying .  

 

[binky]

I think one causes of early failure is switching on and off too much - ie timings set too short, so a windy night may trigger the lamp 100s of times. I also prefer to fit separate lights and PIRs, as I have found many built in PIRs fill up with water! 

As the failures are over 12 months, it's a bit hard to demand the sparky work for free, but I would do this as good customer service, irritating though it can be as buying good product is difficult with the wholesalers constantly chaging stock.

 

[gambit]

Hi

I am just replying to thank everyone who replied to this query offering help.  The electrician did attend and determined that as the fault was caused by a different issue he was prepared to do it for free.  However, he is reluctant to replace them again the future without charge if they fail.  I would have thought that he would replace them until they are sorted for a reasonable length of time i.e. under the warranty duration.

 

[Murdoch]

^^ warranty replacements for unreliable units is a tricky one. 

I've lost track of how many JCC warranty failures I've had and as these have a 10 year warranty people think my time is free - despite getting NOTHING from JCC

So I've stopped selling JCC products and with floodlights I won't fit any now which don't have a 3 year warranty ..................

PS  OP thanks for the update

 

[boltonsparky]

 I would have thought that he would replace them until they are sorted for a reasonable length of time i.e. under the warranty duration.

See it from your electrician's point of view too. Like you through no fault of his own he has ended up with some duff fittings and it has cost him money in fuel and time to replace the fittings for you, as said above most sparks will do this for free to keep their customer happy, however depending on how close to each other you're based there is only a limited number of times he can do this before he has lost any profit on the original job and it is now costing him money. 

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Hi

I am just replying to thank everyone who replied to this query offering help.  The electrician did attend and determined that as the fault was caused by a different issue he was prepared to do it for free.  However, he is reluctant to replace them again the future without charge if they fail.  I would have thought that he would replace them until they are sorted for a reasonable length of time i.e. under the warranty duration.

Providing a supplier is willing to replace a product for free, it is reasonable to expect that you are entitled to free "item"...

However an item's cost is the purchase of the product itself..  NOT any labour costs for removal and/or refitting.. 

Also, where a product is replaced under manufactures warranty, the warranty period remains from the date of the original item fitted,

not from the date a replacement is fitted.

As mentioned earlier you need to compare how the warranty works with shop bought products..

In which case it would be your responsibility to disconnect the old item and return it to your electrician..

Then he would give you a replacement for you to arrange re-installation..

Assuming the fitting didn't fall off the wall.. then the installation work was carried out correctly,

and there are no issues where you can claim the physical installation that you purchased had failed, 

such that you are entitled to a free re-installation.

Guinness