Help With The Loop In Method?

[Jack07]

Hi There,

I'm a just past my electrical trade test about 3 months ago, I served my time with a local kitchen contractor, so I spent 4 year wiring kitchen and the occassional bathroom.

The problem with this was my skills a electrician lack in alot of areas as my work very repetitive. Anyways when I was paid off from my previous job I was lucky enough to find a job with my local council doing house rewires.

All this is good but I'm having problem with wiring lights (never done much)

I've been used to wiring a light from a single switch which is very straight forward,

so I need help with wiring the loop in method I understand how to connect all the switches such as 1 way, 2 way intermediate etc but my problem lies at the celing rose itself,

so Hypothetically speaking say I have one lighting circuit with 12 lights and 4 swithches (each switch controls 3 lights) with all the lighting cables being looped how would they be connected at the ceiling rose?

Please help as best you can, I no this is a simple question that a qualified spark should really no but with my training I've been some what handicapped.

Thanks

jack07

 

[betty swollocks]

try this,

http://www.flameport.com/electric/lighting_circuits/lighting_ceiling_rose_looped.cs4

hope it helps

 

[Theorysparky]

Nice one Betts

welcome to the forum jack...

 

[spinlondon]

Normally, you would take the feed from the CU to the first ceiling rose.

You would then terminate into the the 3 way connector, take a conductor down to the switch, and the loop another conductor from the connector to the next ceiling rose, and so on until you reached the last ceiling rose where you would not loop out to anything.

From what you are saying, you need to re-configure the set up at the roses.

You need to terminate the feed from the CU to a 2 way connector, then take a conductor to the switch.

From the switch terminate the conductor into the 3 way connector, move the conductor to the lamp from the 2 way connector to the 3 way connector, and then terminate a feed to the other lights in the 3 way connector.

 

[Jack07]

Thanks betty,

I understand how it's connected when their is a switch wire but what about the feed and neautral looping out to 2 other lights that are controlled from that switch? and what about when I loop into another room where I need a permanant feed?

Should there be a switch wire and permanent feed at all the rose? (except end of line)

Thanks

jack07

try this,http://www.flameport.com/electric/lighting_circuits/lighting_ceiling_rose_looped.cs4

hope it helps

 

[spinlondon]

If you look at the drawing, swop over the brown from the in with the brown to the lamp. The out will then go to the next ceiling rose that you want controlled by this switch.

To loop out to the next switch, double up the brown, blue and earth of the in.

When you come to the 2nd rose to be controlled by the switch at the first rose, wire the in and out as per the drawing, ignore the switch wires and move the brown from the lamp to where the brown for the switch is.

 

[sparkytim]

Yes you need a perm live, n and cpc to the first light of each set that are switched together but just take a switched live n and cpc to the 2nd and 3rd light on that switch.

 

[Jack07]

Thanks for all the help guys, but I'm still struggling a bit and I'm a bit embarassed (should no this)

When you say you need a permanent feed at the first rose of each set, where does this come from? if your looping switch wires at rose 2 and 3, where would the permanent feed come fro if I was looping in to another room?

I'm really sorry about this, I feel stupid.

If any one had a drawing that would be appreciated if not it's cool. You've been great.

Thanks

jack07

 

[spinlondon]

You will either have to double up on the feed in from the CU conductors, or use a JB or even some connector blocks.

 

[Theorysparky]

Have a look at this

http://www.sparky.uku.co.uk/installations/lighting_circuit.htm#2-way%20lighting%20Wiring%20(or%20cabling)%20diagram

Think of it like this

from the cu you have 1 x twin+cpc

this goes to the first rose termination loop block

take a 1 x twin+cpc to the next and do the same...all the way around the cct

thats your permenant feed.

take 1 x t+e+ cpc to your switch

there it is

 

[sparkytim]

OK

You will have a Perm live, N and CPC at the first light coming from the C Unit.

Loop all 3 of these out to all lights that your switch wires will link to (1st light of your same switched group)

Take ANOTHER twin and earth from the first light to the 2nd light and loop onto the third light you want to come on together. Pick up the LIVE for these lights from the SWITCHED live terminal at the first rose.

 

[Jack07]

So should the first rose from each switched group have 4 cables at it?

cable 1 incoming feed and N from C unit

cable 2 feed and switch wire to switch

cable 3 switch wire and N to ligts on same switch

cable 4 feed and N to next room (other switched group)

This would work right?

 

[spinlondon]

Yes that's about the long and short of it.

 

[Apache]

Just think it through. It's really logical.

You know what you need at the rose, you know you need to [basically] break the live using the switch, the you know you need to take power coming in out to the next light.

Simples!

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

I'm a just past my electrical trade test about 3 months ago.

What is an "electrical trade test"............?

What does its actually teach?..

Supply -> to switch...

Switch -> to load (Light)...

Load (light) -> to other half of supply!

Not really hard, or am I missing the bleeding obvious?

:|

 

[ADS]

You are missing the obvious, Specs....the obvious DIYer

Funny thing, Jack.

Someone on one of the rival forums has exactly the same problem as you, but a different scenario and background.

He didn't get much joy out of the sparks over there with the scenario that he gave - had DIYer written all over it.

Hey Folks,

I've just purchased a large building in my town that I'm converting into 4 flats, and I plan on doing 90% of the work myself (including the electrics)

Hypothetically speaking say I have one lighting circuit per flat with 12 lights and 4 swithches (each switch controls 3 lights) with all the lighting cables being looped

how would they be connected at the ceiling rose?

What a coincidence

Anyway, the answers are the same for you as they were for him - you need to be 'competent'........and by the questions that you are asking, you aren't.

And, the work is probably notifiable!!

:Welcome: