How Many Really Inform Bulding Control..

[gvelec]

...prior to carrying out their 2 assessment jobs? Pay about 200-400 to notify BC and then 400-500 for the assessment/registration. Hmmmmmm

 

[Doc Hudson]

...prior to carrying out their 2 assessment jobs? Pay about 200-400 to notify BC and then 400-500 for the assessment/registration. Hmmmmmm

These type of questions generally miss some fundamental points that Part P is still a relatively new building regulation, (2005), so there is a vast swath of electricians who were trading and working to BS7671 well before Part P was introduced. e.g. most persons who have been working 7 or more years, possible mid 20's to late 30's age group and older. As such these types of electricians already had a large portfolio of jobs that could be called upon as assessment work. When the delay factors of the various schemes processing 100's of electricians for Part P self certification is also considered, then the initial rollover probably went well into 2007. Also still during this time period there were may electricians already part way though college courses (and maybe company apprenticeships) who were getting hands on, on-the job training or undertaking commercial work exempt from Part P but becoming fully C&G qualified and competent to complete BS7671 certificates. The guidance for part P suggests these types of electricians would be able able to issue their own BS7671 certificates to the LABC with minimal LABC involvement or charges.

So the simple answer to you question is a majority of currently approved scheme members probably had no requirement to inform LABC or pay charges prior to assessment. I suspect the real underlying point is about business start up costs. Compared to many types of business these one-off small payments (£100's not £1000's) are no real obstacle to any serious business venture. Think of a small shop with rent, rates, initial stock to sell etc. It is probably only the recent naive, short-course influx of the past 2 or 3 years, who after spending over the odds on a partial training courses, find themselves still under prepared for electrical work or business management and worry about a few start up costs. Many LABC's have sliding charges so minor works would not be £200+

Doc H.

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

Slightly off topic, i was chatting with a Westminster council building inspector a few weeks back about how many part p certs they get. He replied, look at this square alone, we have over 50 planning applications running and skips outside properties we have not, yet we only get a few each day. For the whole of the department we should be getting thousands.

 

[binky]

sounds about right Slips. And yes I did notify BC for 2 jobs to get my DI

 

[Apache]

To anyone a member of a scheme - when does your renewal date start from - the day they got your money and application or the day of your assessment?

The regs allow work to be notified within 30days to anyone 'registered' with a self-certification scheme. I suppose if you got the paperwork submitted, did the jobs and then were inspected, so long as you notified the work within 30 days of completion of the work then 'technically' all above board. Obviously until the very last thing finished the job is not complete.

It has been said before that people have retrospectively notified. I am sure that BCO has condoned this in the past.

 

[steptoe]

ah, thing is there Apache you are presuming they WILL pass,

which, in truth usually happens as they are only interested in the cheque anyway.

 

[wicksy]

If the money is in their coffers then its a pass its a numbers game now

:shakehead

 

[RB2004]

When I spoke to building control the other day, the person I spoke to seemed worrying negligent about what is required to satisfy them.

I wanted answers like, if I dont chase walls, what will you be inspecting at first fix? do I just leave floorboards loose for safety or do they all need to be left open as that would be dangerous... or can I take photos of cable runs under the floor etc..at what point do you want to come and inspect? will it be random? do I have to move sockets and switches to satisfy current building regulations Part M in regards to sockets and switches being between 450mm and 1200mm or when do I call in to get an inspection.. etc...and he was next to useless couldnt answer anything.. even said to me that the company they was using, their contract had ended and they didnt have another company yet to do testing for them. Just kept telling me, they arent electricians and didnt know if they (building control) would require me to comply with Part M or not.

In the end he said I would be better off talking to the company they "used" to get to do their inspections and testing for answers.. gave me their number... and understandbly seeming their contract ended they wasnt really too helpfull either just kept telling me those descisions like if I need to comply with Part M etc are down to building control, as is when i require inspection as building control call them to inspect.. also told me that Morisons took over the contract so they do have a contractor.

was funny though, building control told me, they dont get many part p notifications as most people get an electrician in, I replied.. yeah and id imagine theres a lot of people who dont notify as well... there was a long pause after that and no comment lol.

in the end, he gave me the number of the old company.. still no better off in regards to answers.

so im just going to submit the notice, pay the fees... carry on as normal, leave floorboards loose.. change the wiring and consumer unit.. hire a test meter to test everything as I go along prior to powering up, then call them down for first inspection... nail boards and plaster up any chases which i dont think there will be many.

then they can come back after and do their testing themselves to issue the certificae

 

[Manator]

From the above I doubt very much that you actually spoke to an appointed building control officer. An electrician does not only have to conform to Part P of the building regulations, but all of them.

When Part P came into effect I was contacted by two local councils to advise them, I was contracted to test and inspect those installs that were not carried out by Part P registered contractors. The inspection involved multiple visits, and in some cases when called in too late for instance, I had the power to ask the electrician or builder to remove plasterboards, floor boards or any fixed structure that hid any cable run.

You will find that building control officers are very switched on now, even though the training they have received is very limited.

I am still contacted from time to time to cast an eye over an install as a favour for my LABC.

 

[RB2004]

From the above I doubt very much that you actually spoke to an appointed building control officer. An electrician does not only have to conform to Part P of the building regulations, but all of them.

When Part P came into effect I was contacted by two local councils to advise them, I was contracted to test and inspect those installs that were not carried out by Part P registered contractors. The inspection involved multiple visits, and in some cases when called in too late for instance, I had the power to ask the electrician or builder to remove plasterboards, floor boards or any fixed structure that hid any cable run.

You will find that building control officers are very switched on now, even though the training they have received is very limited.

I am still contacted from time to time to cast an eye over an install as a favour for my LABC.

Hi, probably was not an appointed building control officer no, it was just their building control department

because you have done that work before, what would you advise?

wire up the circuits, but leave floorboards loose... plasterboard is stud walls upstairs and the cables are run in inside the wall without chasing because its hollow so there would not be much to show there.

at what point should I call them to send the electrician for first inspection?

im hoping that if I do everything correct 2 visits would be enough 1 for inspection and 1 for testing... but because there is a requirement to connect everything up as the house is habited could I leave everything open and the electrician does both inspection and testing on same visit if everything is correct? I dont mind hiring test equipment and doing my own tests before powering up if the electrician wants that as proof that I havent connected up dangerous circuits.. he would have to retest them anyway for council benefit.

if I show a good level of workmanship and level of understanding of the regulations..im guessing the electrician would scrutanise my work less and after seeing a sample of it satisfied the rest is correct... dont want to be destroying walls to show cable runs ideally when they dont need destroying to change the wires due to embedded conduit in the wall.

 

[Sidewinder]

You must not power up circuits without undertaking all of the inspection & testing & ensuring that the inspections & readings meet those required under BS7671 regardless of notification to LABC.

 

[Manator]

Building control work on the assumption that you will call them for inspection at critical stages, sometimes they will detail these visits prior, other times they rely on you to call them at each stage.

If your doing a first fix then call them in on your last day, they can see all cable runs and if more cables are required to be put in they will be happy that they have seen at least a sample.

The next time you would need to call them is when everything is second fixed and you have tested/ or not dependant on qualifications and payments.

Important footnote, Thanks to Sidewinder.

If you have not tested any circuit and are reliant on the inspector you do not energise any circuit, you can fix the wall plates ie sockets and switches but should not energise.

 

[Doc Hudson]

If any person carrying out notifiable electrical work is not competent to self certify their work for building regs compliance, then the LABC should be contacted before the works are undertaken. I would suggest this would be the time to verify with the council exactly what and when they would want to undertake any interim inspections of the work. It is no different in principal to the inspector visiting a construction site at footings, pre-plaster, roof level etc.

Doc H.

 

[RB2004]

Hi

Im not going to be energising any circuits without testing hence why I was going to hire a calibrated test meter they are about £100 per week, and do all my own tests on each circuit prior to energising it... as the house is currently inhabited, and I cant rip out all the lighting and socket circuits, replace all the cables in a day and wait until final testing is done.

So I thought maybe I could get around that by installing the circuit, doing my own tests, then if they are within the requirements of 17th Edition Amendment 1 (will get the figures from the book as I own a copy) then I havent energised any circuits without testing.. then council electrician can do the testing again to verify my readings and sign it off.

Because I am doing the circuits 1 by 1..can I for example rip out a lighting circuit 1 day, then change the cables.. get the electrician to inspect, then rip out a socket circuit another day, get it inspected, then move onto next one? or would I litterally have to have all circuits in and left open before inspection?

 

[Sidewinder]

RB,

This will depend on BC requirements if you are notifying.

 

[Doc Hudson]

The LABC fees will have some proportion relative to the number of site visits they expect to make. So if you want them to come out 8 times for each circuit I would think you are going to have to pay the labour and fuel for that inspector to visit site. I doubt many businesses would offer multiple free site visits.

Doc H.

 

[RB2004]

Hi, thanks for the advice so far

I couldnt really get these answers out of building control before when I asked.

I think best plan of action is,

rip out old circuits 1 by 1

install new circuits 1 by 1

do my own tests as I go along prior to powering up to ensure safety.

leave floorboards loose so they can be quickly opened

leave any wall chases open for inspection.

then get the council electrician down to inspect all the cable runs in 1 visit.. if they are satisfactory they maybe able to even do testing on same visit.. if not they can advise on what changes are required.

it will all be done to a high standard even using LSZH cable where possible, ive been going through the related building regulations to ensure I meet them as well.. and own a copy of the wiring regs amendment 1... anything im not sure about I will be sure to ask first, not the kind of person to just go on storming ahead doing dangerous work.

 

[Theorysparky]

Well in my neck of the woods i went through the notifying via BC years ago

looked at first fix 'grommets in and safe zones great !!'

called them back for testing 'can you produce certificates if you can send them in on completion that would be great'

they didn't want to pay a contractor to test it off ffs

the rest is history........

 

[RB2004]

lol, hopefully i shouldnt have that problem with my local building authority.. it says on their pricing schedule for notification, price includes 1st fix inspection and testing upon completion.

they wont accept my results as im not qualified, so I can only test to ensure safety before energising.. will all need re-testing after.

 

[pewter]

To anyone a member of a scheme - when does your renewal date start from - the day they got your money and application or the day of your assessment?

The regs allow work to be notified within 30days to anyone 'registered' with a self-certification scheme. I suppose if you got the paperwork submitted, did the jobs and then were inspected, so long as you notified the work within 30 days of completion of the work then 'technically' all above board. Obviously until the very last thing finished the job is not complete.

It has been said before that people have retrospectively notified. I am sure that BCO has condoned this in the past.

I asked NICEIC this for my assessment. They told me i can not notify work completed before i became a member under there banner. As i became a member after the assessment it is not possible to notify work completed befor the assessment.

I completed my work (change of consumer unit)the day before assessment ( i still had a couple of stickers left to apply). It then gave me 30 days to notify BC of completion and i was also able to let them know i had been accepted into NIC. I also had a friend complete a EICR on my install. I let BC have a copy of all my qualifications, test cert, acceptance into NIC and the EICR. BC still wanted to pop down a visit, not a spark but the man that looked after me from BC. He came in, see a new consumer unit, took a cheque for £100.

The building control man told me they are not electricians, have no knowledge of electrical work and employ a spark if the need to check anything.

I dont know why anyone bothers a rewire for a first job to be notified by BC. Too much cost and hassle with them checking first fix and 2nd fix.

A lot easier to just change a consumer unit for first assessment job as BC will not need to visit until completion.