Is An Isolator In A Shower/bath Area Acceptable

[METPete]

Just want an opinion on this guys. I know what I would do but it seems the NIC think it's acceptable ...

 

[adammid]

if its 2.25m above the floor then its outside the zones. Ridiculous I know.

Section 701 in the big green book

 

[Technician]

Pull chords permitted in zones 1 & 2.

 

[METPete]

Thanks Adammid ... I am going back to site tomorrow to measure floor to ceiling height to double check zone. I know it's completely ridiculous but I am also looking at the EAWR regs to see if it complies, as these are the "real" ones to use for compliance. I have checked with Napit also and they say the same as NIC ...

I remember somewhere reading that if the area is likely to be cleaned with water spray or water jets (difficult to know what power a domestic shower is considered) that any accessory should be rated to at least IP 65 ... which this does not.

I have said to the company that I am contracting to, that I am reluctant to reconnect the shower unless the isolator is moved (not a huge job - but not included in the rate for the job) so I am in a difficult situation.

I know that ultimately for me to sleep at night I may have to walk away from this contracting job and lose future work but I have to think of my own liability towards my name going on the certificate for the work !!!

Pull chords permitted in zones 1 & 2.

with respect ...

Can you advise where (if any) it states this ... or is this an opinion?

just to play devils advocate this would mean that if the Isolator is above 2.25 metres then the shower head could be fitted above 2.25 metres also right next to the isolator and still be compliant ..... if this is the case then I should give up Electrical work and take up flower arranging.

Common sense never seems to apply in this job !!!

 

[Technician]

Read reg.701.512.3  Page 200 BGB.

This EXCLUDES insulating pull chords

of chord operated switches.

It is in black & White MET.

 

[METPete]

Thanks Technician ... Doh! don't know why I didn't see that bit.

... But even though it excludes cords that are hanging inside zone 2 surely it fails on 701.512.2 because in this case the isolator is so close to the shower head (even though it may be above 2.25 m)

I am basically trying to use common sense on this one but I am also making sure that when it does comply it is also compliant with all relevant regs.

 

[wozz]

For me that is not suitable for its location!

 

[METPete]

For me that is not suitable for its location!

that is my same thoughts.

I am also thinking it does not comply with Regulation 5 of EAWR (reasonably practical)

 

[Sidewinder]

Difficult to apply EAWR, unless the shower is for use at work.

Agree that it is ridiculous that this seems allowable.

Is the "environment" at that location suitable for the pull switch base, if, the manufacturer of the switch says no, then it is not acceptable under regs, as we have to take into account manufacturers instructions.

 

[steptoe]

yer,

as above,

Id go on the lines of they accessory being subject to external influences, and being unsuitable for the enviroment

 

[wozz]

environment

I think thats the word i should have used.  

 

[kerching]

Cable does not look very big and how does this get into shower unit?.....horizontal top surface IP rating?

just thinking / typing out loud

looks carp to me

 

[METPete]

The

Difficult to apply EAWR, unless the shower is for use at work.

Agree that it is ridiculous that this seems allowable.

Is the "environment" at that location suitable for the pull switch base, if, the manufacturer of the switch says no, then it is not acceptable under regs, as we have to take into account manufacturers instructions.

EAWR does apply to some degree as this is in a domestic flat above a public house and the landlord is a tenant - so probably more statute laws also apply.

Will have to check the manufacturer of the switch details but they can be quite vague sometimes.

I think it is just not suitable for the environment and anyway if I would not have this arrangement in my house then I don't see why anyone in their right mind would either ... unless there was absolutely no other way or place to put it.

 

[METPete]

Cable does not look very big and how does this get into shower unit?.....horizontal top surface IP rating?

just thinking / typing out loud

looks carp to me

That is the other criteria I have been asked to resolve as part of the remedial work. To downrate the fuse (currently 45A) and install an RCD ... the whole DB should have been replaced as they are all BS3036 fuses without any RCD's

And the cable entry is just filled with silicone. Not a very good job at all. But then again this is one of the better ones I have come across. Typical Pub chain ... no names mentioned.

 

[Sidewinder]

The

EAWR does apply to some degree as this is in a domestic flat above a public house and the landlord is a tenant - so probably more statute laws also apply.

Will have to check the manufacturer of the switch details but they can be quite vague sometimes.

I think it is just not suitable for the environment and anyway if I would not have this arrangement in my house then I don't see why anyone in their right mind would either ... unless there was absolutely no other way or place to put it.

Pete,

You never put this information to us before.

Very grey area, the law would probably be the Landlord & Tenant Act rather than EAWR TBH.

EAWR would be difficult to apply the L&T act would be easy.

If you check the L&T act then it requires that the premises is safe.

Yes it's a bodge. I agree.

Fail it on Reg 134.1.1 and be done with it!

There is also:

132.11

512.2.4

515.1

I also bet that you could pull the switch as not suitable for one of the external influences present in the environment as listed in App 5...

 

[Doc Hudson]

When was it installed, and what regs were applicable when it was installed?

Doc H

 

[Evans Electric]

No RCD  Eh!    Interesting .

What is the IP  No. for a standard 45A pull switch  I wonder ?

Lets face it , its crap .  In a domestic situation I visualise , perhaps one of the younger children lifting the shower head and  spraying water all over the cubicle , drenching the pull switch , water streaming down the tiles , no RCD , low body resistance ............need I go on ?    

 

[binky]

there are also guidelines about spray from showerhead - from memeory 1m radius, so not suitable for environment as it isn't water resistant, or steam proof. Rewirable fuses are not an issue - place RCD in circuit to comply with regs. What about supplementary bonding - bet that isn't present!

we are no longer allowed standard pendants in bathroom due to lack of suitability for environment, so how could this comply?

 

[Sidewinder]

we are no longer allowed standard pendants in bathroom due to lack of suitability for environment, so how could this comply?

Since when binky, that is a new one on me!

Can you provide references please, & I'm not being funny.

 

[binky]

oh god, i'll have to dig deep to find it sidey, but from memory it was in NICEIC EICR guidelines from around 8 years ago, which is when I retrained and did a lot of reading. Pretty sure I'm correct cos no-one fits anything other than 'bathroom light fittings' in bathrooms, and if the likes of certain new house builders could get away with it, they would, to save a few quid!