Knowing One's Limitations .

[Evans Electric]

A recent thread has prompted me to kick this subject off.  

Years ago I learnt not to be drawn into stuff that was , (a)  not our remit ,  (b)  above my head , ©  not our business (d)  extra to our quotation   etc .

Example.

Stuff like , not too long back we had a Forumite ,doing his best , on a shop unit with  flats above I think , our guy was getting involved with should there be a fire alarm system linking shops & flats  IIRC  when in my opinion , as the sparky,  not his remit ,  down to  the Architect / landlord / builder / designer /  project company etc .

Sparkies remit :- 

Get drawing .

Quote for lighting & power & new boards say.

Install lighting , power,  new boards .

Get paid .

Run off giggling like a big dog .

Example .

When around 18 yrs old  firm sent me to start a job , keep builder off their backs, Sparks would catch up with me in few days  .

Builder basically conned me , saying they must have temporary lights etc   no one can see   you'd better get it sorted .

So I did , thinking I was doing the right thing .  It was the days of run a twin rubber flat cable , then screw a spiked lampholder onto it anywhere you need light .     Gaffer comes out 3 days later , I'd only done a small amount of installation and was holding up the plasterer .    Got a right rollocking because the firm hadn't quoted for temporary lighting etc  ( Builders job)  and I should have phoned in .      You live & learn !    Never trust a builder.    Gaffer had said  " 1st fix a couple of shop units ready for plastering "    I should have stuck to that .

 

[Sidewinder]

Deke,

Yes that's fine if you are just doing the sparkying bit.

I think I know the thread you are on about.

The OP has nowhere else to go to really, it is all down to him IIRC, he will be doing all the design work on the supplies and the modifications of the kit to meet its new roles.

I just hope his insurance is up to it!

This is the reason our insurances are about 10x those of the OP and most of you on here, IIRC, the only comparable one insurance price wise is Canoe.

 

[kerching]

i was given loads of advice when i was an Apprentice....proper indentured apprenticeship!

one of the best AND simplest gobbits of wisdom was....."stay as numb as you can for as long as you can...and volunteer for nothing"

 

[Evans Electric]

Wise words  Sidey ,  yes another reason I tend to back off sometimes ,  we've found ourselves being drawn into places we don't need to go . 

I did a complete print works once , but knew all the machines at the previous premises.   So no big deal really but although we knew how we were going to do the lighting I got the Rep involved on a promise to buy their fittings .    They came up with a lighting scheme , all computerised equations , the lot . very impressive , so many rows of lighting , so far apart , etc etc .      ( I'll add some pics later )

Exactly the same as what  me & my mate figured by looking at it  .    Only difference , we refused to use HF fluorescents and stuck with switch start based on previous usage.    

i was given loads of advice when i was an Apprentice....proper indentured apprenticeship!

one of the best AND simplest gobbits of wisdom was....."stay as numb as you can for as long as you can...and volunteer for nothing"

That was the Army wasn't it Kerch ?

 

[M107]

and volunteer for nothing

That was the Army wasn't it Kerch ?

Oh yes indeedy

The only time I (along with 4 others) volunteered was when at p company with 7RHA, we are after 5 recruits to help with & join on a temp basis.............."yes I'd like to be part of the Armstrong  crew" .................. "ok you 5 can clean the mobile **** house, your temporary attachment ends at 17:00 tonight"

Never did get a go on the bikes & never put my hand up to volunteer for anything again while in the green machine.

 

[kerching]

That was the Army wasn't it Kerch ?

Nah. not me!

As for M 107 and the RHA.....a lad I was at University with is the Honoraray C in C of the RHA [Paras]...I think

 

[pewter]

I have always believed that knowing my weakness's is one of my strongest points.

Spelling is one of them.

 

[M107]

That was the Army wasn't it Kerch ?

Nah. not me!

As for M 107 and the RHA.....a lad I was at University with is the Honoraray C in C of the RHA [Paras]...I think

I'll take a guess at General  Barrons & 3 RHA?

 

[kerching]

I'll take a guess at General  Barrons & 3 RHA?

Major General William 'Bill' Hewitt Moore CBE i think is/was his full title

 

[Jono Pashley]

One of the people i work for constantly try to push me into messing with Fire Alarms but i always refuse. Know nothing about them and don't want too. Yet they have other what can only be described as "Handymen" fiddling no idea what BS5839 is, wouldn't want to be them if anything ever goes wrong.

 

[Evans Electric]

I think you 're right Jono ,  we've done a load of Fire Alarms in the past but always working  to the FA company design , supply equip, commission etc .

These days it seems to be sown up by "specialist"  contractors .  As Sidey says , its all to do with insurances etc .    Example , install a Fire Alarm , client 's insurers then   ask was it a specialist company before they will cover .    Same with Security alarms  if not a member of whatever it is  , insurers won't accept them .

I was drawn into a problem once , installing supply to a Sprinkler System booster pump  ( Apparently Severn Trent Water could no longer guarantee pressure )   There were a couple of things we needed to check out , one was the cable must withstand a stalled rotor current  of  ????   ( I'd have to look it up )   So I ran it past Pirrelli Cables , very helpful , and their 16mm  X 4 core would suffice.

However certain regulations were being quoted at me as to the connection of the supply .   The cable was to be connected in the main sub , directly onto the busbars when I intended to connect to a spare Sw / fuse on the panelboard  , M63A  fuses  , the handle locked in the ON position. 

I refused to do it that way , arguing that we must work to BS 7671  and we cannot install the cable without overload & short circuit provision .

I found reference to connecting things such as Sprinkler pumps in this manner but finding no one was willing to accept responsibility, in writing  , it was connected through the switch fuse  as the next downstream fuses were 1000A  IIRC .

 

[Sidewinder]

Deke,

The sprinkler pump may have been a while ago, but, I bet the thought behind the "lack" of protection is what has now become reg 433.3.3(iv) & 434.3(ii), now.

So under the current version of BS7671, you could use the cable to the manufacturers spec, and the fire pump requirements and omit both overload and fault protection legitimately under BS7671:2008+Amd2:2011.

I also bet it does not change with Amd3:2015...

 

[Evans Electric]

I'd say you were right there Sidey and it must have been in the 17th that I found reference to it , I could check .    Time goes quickly these days but it was, as you say, a while ago now .  At a certain local factory that makes the well known  sheets of brown insulating material much beloved of switchgear manufacturers .

At the time I think some other BS was refered to , but as we know , other than short protected tails from busbars , my only experience was to connect via the fuses .    Cable ran through the factory, under a roadway, and along a wall . 

Oh and guess what ?  I never got paid for the job as they declared themselves bankrupt followed by a managment buy out ,which of course , did'nt owe me anything .